The Obama Judiciary

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Tex

Which is why I said the LDS church would not be the only religious group to sever ties, though with 30,000 units nationwide, LDS troops comprise 13% of BSA's total youth membership and is its largest single sponsor (via Wikipedia -- insert joke here). I'm not sure what the corresponding financial support is, but it's not trivial.

I think you underestimate the aversion among many parents to homosexuals leading troops of boys, but again, this is all opinion. Yours is as good as mine.

yes. I had already looked up the numbers from BSA.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by Tex

The legal requirement to permit gay scoutmasters would've caused many religiously affiliated troops to sever ties, including the LDS Church.

I think this argument makes many Mormon men wish that the verdict had gone the other way.

Wouldn't matter though, they would have found something else just as bad.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

Well, this is all a matter of opinion, of course, but here's the result as I see it. The legal requirement to permit gay scoutmasters would've caused many religiously affiliated troops to sever ties, including the LDS Church. In addition, parents who opposed the idea (not few in number) would probably pull their children out of the programs. A group like scouting cannot remain resilient and dynamic without money or people.

The Boy Scouts may have survived in some form, maybe with troops affiliated with secular organizations in liberal parts of the country (like New Jersey, where Dale was). But the national organization as we think of it today would've been radically changed (my word: "destroyed").

The more significant implication, though, is the further curtailing of the freedom of association.

So it would have failed due to the bigotry of the participants? Nice.

What was really sad about that case is that it was indeed based on pure bigotry. There was nothing in the BSA rules about celibacy; it was all about orientation. One could have been an entirely celibate, temple rec-worthy, faithful homosexual, but would have been excluded from participating in scouting. BSA already has rules in place for two-deep leadership and studies have shown that gays are no more likely to be pedophiles than straights.

Even worse is the fact that the LDS church threatened to pull out of scouting had the ruling gone the other way. Why the hell do we care if a troop somewhere decides they are fine with a gay scoutmaster?

[BarbaraGordon]

An aside, one of my most powerful memories from high school was when my boyfriend my senior year found out his scoutmaster was gay. My boyfriend wept freely in my arms for an hour at least (and high school guys don't cry). I rather think it'd be easier on the boys if these guys could be honest with the kids, or if the BS organization did a better job of actually keeping the organization straight.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

So it would have failed due to the bigotry of the participants? Nice.

Lame.

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

What was really sad about that case is that it was indeed based on pure bigotry. There was nothing in the BSA rules about celibacy; it was all about orientation. One could have been an entirely celibate, temple rec-worthy, faithful homosexual, but would have been excluded from participating in scouting. BSA already has rules in place for two-deep leadership and studies have shown that gays are no more likely to be pedophiles than straights.

The legal argument was that the Scouts believe homosexuality is neither "morally straight" nor "clean," thus including someone as a leader who flaunts this standard violated the Scouts' right to expressive association.

Damn straight.

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Even worse is the fact that the LDS church threatened to pull out of scouting had the ruling gone the other way. Why the hell do we care if a troop somewhere decides they are fine with a gay scoutmaster?

I believe the concern, genius, is that some homosexual would've tried to force himself into an LDS troop.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

Lame.

It's your argument, Tex. BSA would "be destroyed" because a subset of the parents wouldn't be comfortable with an organization that is friendly to gays.

Originally Posted by Tex

The legal argument was that the Scouts believe homosexuality is neither "morally straight" nor "clean," thus including someone as a leader who flaunts this standard violated the Scouts' right to expressive association.

Damn straight.

Oh, I agree that it was the correct ruling. If a private organization wants to practice bigotry, let them have at it.

Originally Posted by Tex

I believe the concern, genius, is that some homosexual would've tried to force himself into an LDS troop.

More fear-mongering. This is all part of that secret gay agenda, right?

You are dodging again. The rule was based on orientation only. Not lifestyle, not promiscuity. Orientation. That's bigotry in my book.

Again, I am all for freedom of association. But we were pushing it for the wrong reasons in this case.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

you really think Obama will appoint activists who will forward his agenda from the bench?

then you are an idiot.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by exUte

you are an idiot.

Only when compared to Seattle.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

And then requiring those scoutmasters to have sex with the scouts. I know! Can you believe it?

I think Obama has already caught the gay. Is there no cure?

the hen house. Most gay men are pedophiles and perverts. Sounds like you caught the gay.........hook line and sinker.

No you can't be my son's scoutmaster. Sorry.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by exUte

Most gay men are pedophiles and perverts.

I'm so glad someone finally admitted what this is really all about.

Thank you, ex.