How can someone on the far left

[BYU71]

or the far right unite a country. It either has to be done by trickery and deceit or by force, doesn't it.

I am interested in hearing from the Obama supporters how they think a far leftie is going to pull of uniting the country except through trickery and deceit.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

or the far right unite a country. It either has to be done by trickery and deceit or by force, doesn't it.

I am interested in hearing from the Obama supporters how they think a far leftie is going to pull of uniting the country except through trickery and deceit.

Obama is favored to win the election, but he will not unite given his radical socialist and anti-capitalist policies. There will be division and strife from the first day, and I aim to be one of those giving him grief. Let him eat hell for being an extremist.

[Clark Addison]

Not trying to be confrontational here, just curious. What do you think makes Obama a radical lefty? What, specifically, will he do that is way out there beyond the mainstream?

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

Not trying to be confrontational here, just curious. What do you think makes Obama a radical lefty? What, specifically, will he do that is way out there beyond the mainstream?

His voting record and how much Ted Kennedy loves him.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

Not trying to be confrontational here, just curious. What do you think makes Obama a radical lefty? What, specifically, will he do that is way out there beyond the mainstream?

Increase capital gains taxes, implement a new health insurance bureaucracy, implement universal health care, immediate unilateral withdrawal from Iraq, his voting record rankings, his twenty year association with Pastor Wright, increase income taxes, increase government regulation of selected industries, his stance on abortion which is not "pro-choice" but pro-abortion,

In fact, can you identify one proposed policy which is close to being moderate?

Every single policy proposed must have come from France.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Increase capital gains taxes, implement a new health insurance bureaucracy, implement universal health care, immediate unilateral withdrawal from Iraq, his voting record rankings, his twenty year association with Pastor Wright, increase income taxes, increase government regulation of selected industries, his stance on abortion which is not "pro-choice" but pro-abortion,

In fact, can you identify one proposed policy which is close to being moderate?

Every single policy proposed must have come from France.

OK, let's take these one by one.

Increase Capital Gains Tax It is true that Obama would like to increase the capital gains tax to the levels of that extreme lefty, Ronald Reagan. For what it's worth, I don't know if I like this position, but it is hardly radical.

Health Insurance Is Obama's plan for Health Care on the left? Of course. Is it radical or extreme? I don't see that, but if you want to argue in more specific terms how, feel free.

Iraq Where has Obama said that he favors "immediate unilateral withdrawal from Iraq". His plan calls for a phased pull out over the course of over a year. Sadly, I don't think he will be able to do it. And I don't understand your concern with unilateralism? Whose permission should we be asking to leave? If, by this, you mean that Obama is not planning on cooperating with Allies or Iraq in working this out, I don't know where you got this idea. His withdrawal is certainly planned to be less unilateral than the invasion was.

Voting Records Again, I don't know what this means. Most people who say that "Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate" are talking about rankings in National Journal Magazine (a conservative magazine. Hmmm, they surely wouldn't have any reason to push this agenda). If you look across rankings by various groups, whether on the left, right, or non-partisan, there is no evidence that Obama is out there on the fringe somewhere. The ACLU ranks him #28 by their criteria. Taxpayers for Common Sense rank him #27. The US Chamber of Commerce ranks him in the middle. The John Birch Society ranks 15 Senators as more liberal than him. The beloved Eagle Forum ranks 42 Senators as more liberal.

Pastor Wright I think it is valid to use this relationship to question Obama's judgement. I don't see how it proves he is radically liberal.

Increase Income Taxes Obama wants to repeal Bush's tax cuts. This would put us at a level, if you look at the past 25, 50 or 100 years, of LOW taxation. We are currently running massive deficits. Isn't fiscal responsibility supposed to be a conservative trait? If Obama wanted to raise the marginal tax rate on incomes over $150K to 80%, then sure, call him a radical.

Maybe the problem is me. Maybe I am a radical. But I don't see a lot of far-left proposals out there.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

OK, let's take these one by one.

Increase Capital Gains Tax It is true that Obama would like to increase the capital gains tax to the levels of that extreme lefty, Ronald Reagan. For what it's worth, I don't know if I like this position, but it is hardly radical.

Health Insurance Is Obama's plan for Health Care on the left? Of course. Is it radical or extreme? I don't see that, but if you want to argue in more specific terms how, feel free.

Iraq Where has Obama said that he favors "immediate unilateral withdrawal from Iraq". His plan calls for a phased pull out over the course of over a year. Sadly, I don't think he will be able to do it. And I don't understand your concern with unilateralism? Whose permission should we be asking to leave? If, by this, you mean that Obama is not planning on cooperating with Allies or Iraq in working this out, I don't know where you got this idea. His withdrawal is certainly planned to be less unilateral than the invasion was.

Voting Records Again, I don't know what this means. Most people who say that "Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate" are talking about rankings in National Journal Magazine (a conservative magazine. Hmmm, they surely wouldn't have any reason to push this agenda). If you look across rankings by various groups, whether on the left, right, or non-partisan, there is no evidence that Obama is out there on the fringe somewhere. The ACLU ranks him #28 by their criteria. Taxpayers for Common Sense rank him #27. The US Chamber of Commerce ranks him in the middle. The John Birch Society ranks 15 Senators as more liberal than him. The beloved Eagle Forum ranks 42 Senators as more liberal.

Pastor Wright I think it is valid to use this relationship to question Obama's judgement. I don't see how it proves he is radically liberal.

Increase Income Taxes Obama wants to repeal Bush's tax cuts. This would put us at a level, if you look at the past 25, 50 or 100 years, of LOW taxation. We are currently running massive deficits. Isn't fiscal responsibility supposed to be a conservative trait? If Obama wanted to raise the marginal tax rate on incomes over $150K to 80%, then sure, call him a radical.

Maybe the problem is me. Maybe I am a radical. But I don't see a lot of far-left proposals out there.

You are a radical.

The capital gains levels exceed what many other countries assess upon their capital investments, and Ronald Reagan had to barter and trade. In theory, we should have capital gains at ten percent and nothing higher, but don't try and characterize his position as anything but radical in terms of taxation.

If his plans for health care are NOT extreme, then what is extreme? They may be attractive to citizens who are looking for a way to reduce the cost of health care, which I believe his plans will fail to achieve, but they are radical and extreme. People don't wish to pay a lot and the politicians are all too happy to say, "I know a way." Fools believe them.

His proposal is the most radical out there. Again, I don't like that it got started but I feel a moral duty now we're there.

A guy listening for 20 years to an anti-American hatemonger, and you don't find that radical?

Our tax rates are still higher than many countries such as HK, Monaco and I believe even Costa Rica.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Adam

Your question contains your bias. Obama isn't a "far leftie" and until you are willing to consider that idea, you start with your end in hand and cannot see otherwise.

Of course with this bias, you don't get it. You cannot get it until you examine the man objectively. When you are able to do so, maybe you will understand.

I don't know what role you are trying to play on here, but you do a piss poor job at it.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Adam

"I define Obama as a radical leftie and I don't like radical lefties. You will never convince me Obama is not a radical leftie because I refuse to consider information that might show this to be true. I will never like radical lefties no matter what anyone says. In spite of these intractable positions, please tell me why Obama will appeal to me."

If you wonder why your political discussions don't go anywhere, it is because you start them like this.

I don't wonder why they don't go anywhere. Your posts always go somewhere because you often make such an ass of yourself people feel free to jump on board.

[Venkman]

Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Michelle Obama. All point to a guy who fundamentally is ashamed of America and it's historic ideals of capitalism, individualism, and limited government and who'd like to see us move more towards European style socialism.

The fact that William Ayers, as well as other 60's radicals and terrorists, are now "respected" members of academia, underscores how radical mainstream liberalism has become over the last 30 years.