"Mormon enough" personal account - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 08-06-2015, 02:48 PM

https://medium.com/@ungewissen/mormo...h-1f4993f030c2

Archaea · 08-06-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

https://medium.com/@ungewissen/mormo...h-1f4993f030c2

I like that account. Thank you for sharing.

BlueK · 08-07-2015, 07:49 PM

I also liked the article. I think it's sad when members feel that way, often for things that IMO, are not doctrinal, but are just cultural icons: I don't feel mormon enough because I'm not caucasian enough, or don't have enough pioneer ancestry, or I hate green jello, or I'm not really big on doing genealogy, or I hated boy scouts when I was growing up, or I'm not the best home teacher, or I'm not a socially conservative republican, or you name it. Sure, sometimes people also feel that way because they struggle with the word of wisdom or other things that have temple recommend implications. Even in those cases I wish as a people we were more understanding, forgiving and inclusive. I don't know if I will ever be called as a bishop, but if I am, I think I will try very hard to help all members try to not think that they're not "mormon enough," regardless of what they're going through.

MikeWaters · 08-07-2015, 08:26 PM

Big tent vs. small tent.

There's too many small tent Mormons out there. For my taste anyway. They think they are doing the right thing, keeping things true and pure and righteous.

BlueK · 08-07-2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Big tent vs. small tent.

There's too many small tent Mormons out there. For my taste anyway. They think they are doing the right thing, keeping things true and pure and righteous.

Let's show someone the door or not be very nice to them (or even worse, secretly gossip about them) because they smell like smoke or they used to be inactive or whatever doesn't fit the "norm." I hate that. It's so against a major teaching from the Book of Mormon to act that way, and yet so many supposedly devout LDS are perfectly content to act like wicked Nephites.

Here's a real example my wife told me about. Her aunt commented to my wife's mom recently about a sister in her ward who is currently the RS president. Most of the comment itself wasn't bad, except for at the end when she felt the need to throw in (and not exactly in a positive light) that this sister once "had to get married" when she was younger because she was pregnant. Hello!! It's now twenty freaking years later and she's clearly been living the standards for many years since, not to mention it's no one else's business. Unfortunately my mother in law has the same kind of mentality. Its sad that so many members essentially have little understanding of or faith in the Atonement and don't even realize it.

MikeWaters · 08-07-2015, 10:31 PM

Judgment is what keeps some people in line. So that's what makes judgment useful for keeping the society all on the same page. Shame.

But the other message, that you are always welcome to come back, no matter what....is sometimes lost.

And humans being humans, I'm not sure everyone is in fact invited or wanted. Most are. But not everyone.

BlueK · 08-08-2015, 12:28 AM

Interesting point. Of course judgment and shame play a role in helping to keep society in line. In the context of the gospel though, I would say we shouldn't miss the point of redemption. Repentance and forgiveness remove the shame, but we have a strong cultural tendency to not want to remove it from others or ourselves long after we've been redeemed.

Also, my interpretation of the NT makes me believe that Jesus wasn't a big fan of societal shame. I mean, he made friends with the dregs of society who carried shame. Every Samaritan was under shame by the Jews just because their ancestors mixed with people not of the covenant. He hung out with tax collectors who were shamed because they associated with their Roman oppressors. I think among the Jews of his time the whole shame thing had really run amok, to the point that people born blind were assumed either to have had parents who sinned or had sinned themselves. I grew up LDS and this didn't bother me that much I guess growing up, but as I have matured, I suppose, it bothers me now that our culture should be a little more forgiven and less judgmental.

MikeWaters · 08-08-2015, 02:37 AM

The wards I have been in, have generally done a decent job. I think a lot of it has to do with the investigators and new converts, who themselves are often from humble circumstances. The missionaries tract them out and the members (usually a dedicated handful) do a good job fellowshipping them. In my ward, the lack of cohesion is more young vs. old, apartment dwellers vs. empty-nest homeowners. You have the folks that are always there year after year, and then the itinerants who will be gone in 6 months, 1 year, 18 months. Even those that here just for the summer. It makes it tough.

08-06-2015, 02:48 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	"Mormon enough" personal account https://medium.com/@ungewissen/mormo...h-1f4993f030c2

08-07-2015, 07:49 PM	#3
BlueK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,368	I also liked the article. I think it's sad when members feel that way, often for things that IMO, are not doctrinal, but are just cultural icons: I don't feel mormon enough because I'm not caucasian enough, or don't have enough pioneer ancestry, or I hate green jello, or I'm not really big on doing genealogy, or I hated boy scouts when I was growing up, or I'm not the best home teacher, or I'm not a socially conservative republican, or you name it. Sure, sometimes people also feel that way because they struggle with the word of wisdom or other things that have temple recommend implications. Even in those cases I wish as a people we were more understanding, forgiving and inclusive. I don't know if I will ever be called as a bishop, but if I am, I think I will try very hard to help all members try to not think that they're not "mormon enough," regardless of what they're going through.

08-07-2015, 08:26 PM	#4
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Big tent vs. small tent. There's too many small tent Mormons out there. For my taste anyway. They think they are doing the right thing, keeping things true and pure and righteous.

08-07-2015, 10:31 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Judgment is what keeps some people in line. So that's what makes judgment useful for keeping the society all on the same page. Shame. But the other message, that you are always welcome to come back, no matter what....is sometimes lost. And humans being humans, I'm not sure everyone is in fact invited or wanted. Most are. But not everyone.

08-08-2015, 12:28 AM	#7
BlueK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,368	Interesting point. Of course judgment and shame play a role in helping to keep society in line. In the context of the gospel though, I would say we shouldn't miss the point of redemption. Repentance and forgiveness remove the shame, but we have a strong cultural tendency to not want to remove it from others or ourselves long after we've been redeemed. Also, my interpretation of the NT makes me believe that Jesus wasn't a big fan of societal shame. I mean, he made friends with the dregs of society who carried shame. Every Samaritan was under shame by the Jews just because their ancestors mixed with people not of the covenant. He hung out with tax collectors who were shamed because they associated with their Roman oppressors. I think among the Jews of his time the whole shame thing had really run amok, to the point that people born blind were assumed either to have had parents who sinned or had sinned themselves. I grew up LDS and this didn't bother me that much I guess growing up, but as I have matured, I suppose, it bothers me now that our culture should be a little more forgiven and less judgmental.

08-08-2015, 02:37 AM	#8
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	The wards I have been in, have generally done a decent job. I think a lot of it has to do with the investigators and new converts, who themselves are often from humble circumstances. The missionaries tract them out and the members (usually a dedicated handful) do a good job fellowshipping them. In my ward, the lack of cohesion is more young vs. old, apartment dwellers vs. empty-nest homeowners. You have the folks that are always there year after year, and then the itinerants who will be gone in 6 months, 1 year, 18 months. Even those that here just for the summer. It makes it tough.