If a man has the right to marry a man...

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

It isn't even basic given your argument of "tradition." The tradition of marriage is one totally different to the one recognized in the US today (as all Mormons should know). If tradition is the winning argument, polygamy will find a nice place in American society (as will harlots).

Most sane, clear-thinking people understand that the long paradigm of one-man, one-woman marriage has been the foundation of a successful family and a successful society for generations. People who demand empirical proof of this are like adolescents who insist their parents "don't understand" them.

The best arguments for homosexual marriage boil down to nothing more than a cross between "because I want to!" and "hey, why not?" Follow your own standard: there's no compelling empirical evidence that the success of homosexual marriages and/or families is more or even equal to that of traditional marriage. There are no societies built on the homosexual nuclear family.

Your position is the weak one, underscored by the fact that you have to resort to returning to slavery as an argument.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

In other words, you are incabable of defending the position on a secular basis. In that case, your position should fail.

In other words, the secular position exists in too much of a moral vacuum. You appear to be fine with moral vacuums. I'm not.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Most sane, clear-thinking people understand that the long paradigm of one-man, one-woman marriage has been the foundation of a successful family and a successful society for generations. People who demand empirical proof of this are like adolescents who insist their parents "don't understand" them.

The best arguments for homosexual marriage boil down to nothing more than a cross between "because I want to!" and "hey, why not?" Follow your own standard: there's no compelling empirical evidence that the success of homosexual marriages and/or families is more or even equal to that of traditional marriage. There are no societies built on the homosexual nuclear family.

Your position is the weak one, underscored by the fact that you have to resort to returning to slavery as an argument.

Generations? Your argument was to a 6,000 year history. It seems your version of tradition is getting smaller and smaller until it fits within the context of one man/one woman. It isn't even a tradition in your own church for lots of generations.

If marriage is a right, then the burden of proof is on those who would argue it shouldn't be extended to a class, not vice-versa. And my retort of "slavery" is (I would think obviously) designed to show the flaws of an argument based on "tradition." Give up, Tex. Your arguments already have, now just your will needs to follow.

[MikeWaters]

Could a gay man, who is married to another gay man, but separated for many years, who has renounced gay sex and is celebate--could this man be baptized? Or would divorce be a pre-condition to baptism?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Could a gay man, who is married to another gay man, but separated for many years, who has renounced gay sex and is celebate--could this man be baptized? Or would divorce be a pre-condition to baptism?

I would have to think divorce would be a pre-requisite.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I would have to think divorce would be a pre-requisite.

Ok, what if the marriage never came up, and a guy in this situation was baptized. Then it comes up later. Is the gay partner put into the MLS database?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Ok, what if the marriage never came up, and a guy in this situation was baptized. Then it comes up later. Is the gay partner put into the MLS database?

Instead of beating around the bush, do you know of a specific actual situation like this?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Instead of beating around the bush, do you know of a specific actual situation like this?

Isn't gay marriage just occurring in Mass? So no, I don't know of a situation because gay marriage is such a new thing.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Isn't gay marriage just occurring in Mass? So no, I don't know of a situation because gay marriage is such a new thing.

I can't imagine for the life of me what would get the separated partner (who in all likelihood isn't living in the same household) put into MLS. Odds are that someone who didn't reveal this relationship up front would have some measure of disciplinary action taken against them which would include at the bare minimum a legal dissolution of the relationship.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I can't imagine for the life of me what would get the separated partner (who in all likelihood isn't living in the same household) put into MLS. Odds are that someone who didn't reveal this relationship up front would have some measure of disciplinary action taken against them which would include at the bare minimum a legal dissolution of the relationship.

Isn't whether you've ever had gay sex part of the mission interview process? If the answer is yes, it gets kicked up to the Mission President or some other higher authority.

I knew of two cases on my mission where men who had had gay sex were baptized after this process.