Cali, is sitting by, playing hard to get,

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Tex

I think asking who won is a silly question. With few exceptions, people vote for "their guy".

That debate convinced me that McCain has no chance to win in November. I'm with Waters, he's going to lose in Modale like fashion.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

It isn't a silly question. If there is no clear winner, the winner is the frontrunner. If the polls don't move at all, Obama would be quite content.

Which is what I said. But it doesn't mean his performance at the debate was superior.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

If the "real measure of success in a debate is the impact on the electorate," then you should find the polls above enlightening. They suggest Obama won (note especially the poll of undecided voters).

I'm talking about national and battleground polls.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Well yes, that is exactly what it means. If more people think candidate A won a debate than candidate B, then candidate A had a superior performance at the debate. The purpose of the debate is to convince more people that you are right than are convinced that your opponent is right. Obama did that according to the polls.

Obama won by "default," meaning no one won. It's like being spotted a free 7 points at the start of a football game, and then winning the game by a touchdown. Yes, you won, but .... so what?

As I said, it's a stupid question anyway.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

The polls I listed above ARE national polls.

I'm talking about Rasmussen, Zogby, Gallup, etc. They don't release debate numbers on the same night, because they don't call people at 11 PM to see what they think.

Releasing poll numbers the same night as the debate is another thing that is exceptionally stupid.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Ah, I see. So when you say he didn't win, you clarify to mean that he did win, and when you say that you want national polls, you mean you want national polls other than the national polls who have already given data.

Got it.

They are both stupid questions, which why I'm not surprised to see you asking them.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Ah. So if we hold a debate, the sole purpose of which is to give the candidates an opportunity to convince more people to vote for them than the other guy, then it is stupid to ask if they accomplished that purpose?

I don't think Obama did that. His only movement in the polls the last few weeks has been related to the economic crisis. Factor that out, and the debates have been plainly impactless.

It's just so hard for you to admit that your Messiah turned in a mediocre performance, isn't it. You'd say he won, even if he dropped 10 pts in the polls.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

If he dropped 10 points in the polls, then clearly he would have lost. Ironically, it is your candidate who has dropped 10 points in the polls and you continue to claim a draw. Nice.

McCain is not down 10, and it's had little to do with the debates.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

How can you possibly know that the economy is the sole reason the polls are shifting? Seriously. You are going a bit crazy.

Digging deeper into the poll data shows angst over the economy as the driving force behind poll movement. The debates don't even register.

[Tex]

You're just picking and choosing polls to make them say what you wish. I'm done with the Dance of Death.

Cheers.