An essay on gay marriage....

[PaloAltoCougar]

A friend of mine from grade school tracked me down after 35 years and we've exchanged a fair amount of correspondence. He had moved away after grade school and I hadn't stayed in touch. Looking back, he exhibited many of the gay stereotypes but homosexuality wasn't discussed much at Parsons School in the '60s, so it didn't matter. When I spoke with him a few years ago for the first time since grade school, he said he was gay, noting how difficult it was for him to come out, at age 21, to his very conservative parents. His Mom told him she had known it for many years. He asked when she first began to realize that, and she said it was when she took him and his two friends (me and another kid, with whom I play golf to this day) to a toy store at Christmastime. She said, "[PAC] and Jerry were over playing with that electric football game, and you went straight to the E-Z Bake Ovens." Interesting the telltale signs....

Anyway, we've discussed Prop. 8 and he understands the difficulty many Church members have with the issue (interestingly, on condition that I not report him to the gay police, he's said that he thinks a heterosexual couple should have priority over a homosexual couple in adoption matters). He sent me an interesting essay on the subject which, though a few years old, does a pretty good job of explaining the pro-gay marriage position. Note the author's bio, which appears at the end.

http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm

[TripletDaddy]

I find this article to be interesting.

SO DO MY friends.

SO DO MY neighbors.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I am reminded of the former wife of our former bishop. Near the end of his tenure (and their marriage) in the early '90s, I saw her walking around the lake near our house wearing a sweatshirt that proclaimed, "I Stand Up for Sodomy." Let me preempt at least some of the responses by noting that given her physical appearance, that was not haht.

[LA Ute]

Maybe it was Balfour. Anyway, that person said that the disagreement between Arabs and Jews over "The Holy Land" amounted to "two forms of justice in conflict." It's like that with gay marriage. Both sides have compelling arguments, but after all the screaming and yelling and the tolerance and understanding and the efforts to meet halfway, one side or the other has to give up on something deeply important to it. There is no middle ground, no "half a loaf." The whole thing contains tragic elements. I support Prop 8 wholeheartedly but I will feel only relief, not joy or exhilaration, if it passes.

For me, the fundamental reason I support Prop 8 is religious, but I can make a secular argument as well. I think marriage between a man and a woman is and should be the ideal; that every child has the right to be born into a family with a mother and a father, and that if we abandon that ideal our society will suffer greatly. For me, everything else is an appendage to those concerns. That's about as plainly as I can say it.

Now that we are trying to amend the State Constitution, we are in "We the People" territory. The definition of marriage is something the people can properly decide to put in their constitution. (My greatest gripe about the current situation is that the State Supreme Court redefined marriage by a 4-3 vote. That's now how a decision like that shold be made.)

If Prop 8 passes, what will be fascinating to watch is whether the issue will end up in the U.S. Supreme Court. Will the SCOTUS finally find sexual orientation to be a suspect class, and strike down that portion of the California Constitution enacted by the people in a referendum? High drama at the High Court!

I think the SCOTUS as now constituted would vote 5-4 against overturning Prop 8. But with 8 years of Barack Obama appointees and large Democratic majorities in the Senate and House, I don't see that margin holding.

And yet we press on. See Moroni 9:6.

End of mini-sermon.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by LA Ute

For me, the fundamental reason I support Prop 8 is religious, but I can make a secular argument as well. I think marriage between a man and a woman is and should be the ideal; that every child has the right to be born into a family with a mother and a father, and that if we abandon that ideal our society will suffer greatly. For me, everything else is an appendage to those concerns. That's about as plainly as I can say it.

Your "secular argument" is religious as well. Your "ideal" is just an assertion rooted in your religious belief. If I were to design the "ideal" parents, they would be absent impefections I, a heterosecual, must struggle with daily, and I'm not even sure I'd get around to addressing gender/sexual preference. It wouldn't be among the most important factors I'd idenify.

[SeattleUte]

Perhaps what's most interesting about this essay is that it does seem a little dated, in that it is making arguments most thoughtful and educated Americans take for granted now. These arguments probably resonted in 1996, but for many of us today they just seem to be stating the obvious.

[LA Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Your "ideal" is just an assertion rooted in your religious belief.

Well, yes. I thought I made that pretty clear. Ideals can be religious. Your point?

[LA Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

These arguments probably resonted in 1996, but for many of us today they just seem to be stating the obvious.

Ah, Seattle, you have a way with words. Maybe you simply enjoy so much being freed from the strictures of legal writing, and from the scrutiny of judges who won't let you get away with describing your answers to serious questions as "obvious." Maybe that's what impels you to write such supercilious rubbish. That's my theory, anyway.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by LA Ute

Well, yes. I thought I made that pretty clear. Ideals can be religious. Your point?

You said, "For me, the fundamental reason I support Prop 8 is religious, but I can make a secular argument as well. I think marriage between a man and a woman is and should be the ideal. . ." I'm merely pointing out that you don't have a secular reason. It's all religious.