Vino tests positive; astana is out

[creekster]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

So are you saying that you disagree with my skepicism of the cleanliness of his stage 15 win? I know you said that cyclists are fastidious, but I smell something dirty here.

Although the more that I think about it, red blood cells usually last in the body for about 2 weeks, iirc. So obviously he will get a positive test on stage 15, as well as stage 14, his real stinker stage as well. I guess I wouldn't be totally surprised if they find something else in his samples of 15.

No,I don't disagree. I am not sure about the 2 week idea, however. I thoght I recalled that the body sloughs off the excess cells pretty quickly, which is why the nordic norweigan skiers had to transfuse so frequently a few years back in the olympics. Is this not correct? IOW, the boosted effect is very short term, althogh I suppose some fo the cells could be around for a long time.

[mtnbiker310]

Originally Posted by creekster

No,I don't disagree. I am not sure about the 2 week idea, however. I thoght I recalled that the body sloughs off the excess cells pretty quickly, which is why the nordic norweigan skiers had to transfuse so frequently a few years back in the olympics. Is this not correct? IOW, the boosted effect is very short term, althogh I suppose some fo the cells could be around for a long time.

Check out this article on VeloNews: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12924.0.html. The doctor who wrote it says the red blood cells last up to 120 days, and suggests tests after 60, 90, and 120 days to help determine that it was, in fact, someone else's blood, and not the 'vanishing twin'.

I wasn't initially surprised with Vino's showing in the time trial, which is when the suspect blood was drawn. Past years have shown some inconsistencies, but he's always been a fighter. Interesting that he had a really bad day, then a really good one, which is reminiscent of Landis last year. I was a little surprised that no one here mentioned the similarities. (Not surprised that Liggett & Sherwin didn't mention it, though. Nobody wants to bring that up again.)

I would still like to believe Landis got jobbed by the Frenchies, given how hard he's fighting and how poorly the lab seems to operate. The notes I read about the arbitration case made the lab people look like idiots. Personalities really shouldn't have anything to do with it, either, but Dick Pound seems to be a total jerk and it would be nice to see him put in his place. If I were a rider on the Pro Tour, I would be extremely hesitant to sign their anti-doping oath, since I have no respect for their lab work or scruples.

A sad day all around.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Adam

Anyone here get excted for LeviL. Has he ever done anything exciting in tour.

That's exactly the point for me. Perhaps Levi HAS been doing something exciting for 2 weeks now and it's been overshadowed by cheaters. We'll never know.

[SteelBlue]

I just found this quote from Millar on velonews:

David Millar was the first rider to react to the news: "Jesus Christ - there you go, that's my quote," he blurted out. "What timing, huh? This is just f#cking great."

[MikeWaters]

Here is what Phil Liggett said:

Paul, Bob and I are, for once, speechless. We are all very upset with such a stupid action at a time the sport looked to be putting its own house in order. It is incomprehensible that Vinokourov could do such a thing when he must have known he was under suspicion because of his dealing with disgraced doctor Michele Ferrari in Italy. He must have known he would be tested at every opportunity and the time trial was the perfect occasion.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by mtnbiker310

Check out this article on VeloNews: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12924.0.html. The doctor who wrote it says the red blood cells last up to 120 days, and suggests tests after 60, 90, and 120 days to help determine that it was, in fact, someone else's blood, and not the 'vanishing twin'.

The doctor only said that the life span of blood cells is up to 120 days. Therefore the tests administered over time should see an increasingly lower ratio of the homologous sample compared to the natural cells (assuming that no other homologous transfusion took place). The article did not say that the effects of the transfusion last 120 days. To the contrary, I think the article was silent about the duration of the performance effects of the transfusion. (I actually did tread the article earlier today)

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

I am a casual tour fan--I have watched about half the stages the last 3 tours.

I am blown away by Vino's positive test and the whole team pulling out. What a nightmare.

I really as a fan of Vino and really wanted him to win--he has the most guts of all the riders and the most flash. I really liked him.

I also was thrilled to watch Rassmusen come out of nowhere to win the king of the mountians two years ago. I liked his spunk and felt for him falling in the time trials.

If Vino and Rassumsen are dirty there is nothing left for me in cycling. Anyone here get excted for LeviL. Has he ever done anything exciting in tour.

A very very sad day. Cycling just lost milions of fans.

I certainly agree this is a sad, sad day, but I actually like Levi. He is sort of the everynman rider. Not spectacular, not the greatest time trialist, nor an explosive climber, nor a sprinter (not at all) and yet he just doesn't go away,. He is always there and has finished in the top ten of the Tdf several times, which is actually a spectacular performance. He may not be exciting but he is worthy of admiration, especially if he is drug free.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

You are certainly right that he is an amazing athlete, but you are also right that watching him is like watching paint dry. Slow and steady in the lead group day after day after day.

Guys like Landis and Rassmusen and Vino are what make the tour exciting. And they are the cheaters.

It shouldn't surprise really. The guys with the explosive bursts and amazing days are the ones you should expect to be doping on those days. It is a shame.

I think Levi acquitted himself quite nicely today. He sacrificed himself by attacking Rasmussen on the final climb (which as we have established is nto his forte) and yet had enough left to take a strong second only to Rasmussed when Contador failed to capitlaize. I hope he is on the podium.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

You are certainly right that he is an amazing athlete, but you are also right that watching him is like watching paint dry. Slow and steady in the lead group day after day after day.

Guys like Landis and Rassmusen and Vino are what make the tour exciting. And they are the cheaters.

It shouldn't surprise really. The guys with the explosive bursts and amazing days are the ones you should expect to be doping on those days. It is a shame.

Also, there have been many, many riders over thte years that have attacked like crazy. Nto all of them used drugs. Levi's style is not due to being drug free, it is a result of his physiology or psychology or both. He just can't attack explosively, but he can ride a killer pace.

[bluegoose]

Can someone help me understand why the entire Astana team was asked to leave the tour while other teams of doping riders are allowed to stay?