UFC vs Pride - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SteelBlue · 01-07-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what is MMA?

Mixed Martial Arts.

I should have added that I feel the same way in reverse. Take the UFC guy with the best boxing skills and put him in the ring with Hopkins and give them boxing's rules. Hopkins wins in the first round.

RockyBalboa · 01-07-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Just watched clips from the first Liddell vs. Couture fight. Most of it was on their feet, until the end when Couture grounds and pounds. But the fight was won before that occurred. Again the theme is "on their feet."

Mayweather vs. Liddell would not be a fair comparison. Mayweather fights at welterweight (up to 147). According to wikipedia, Liddell weighs in at 205. That would put him in the heavyweight division. Could Liddell take out the best heavyweights in history in a UFC match? I don't think so.

In a street fight (again MMA rules) most of the boxing heavyweights would get hurt badly. In a strict boxing match obviously the best heavyweights in history would certainly win.

MikeWaters · 01-07-2007, 10:53 PM

very average heavyweight boxing contenders would beat Liddell in boxing.

boxing is not something you pick up in 2 months. Liddell would just be another muscle-bound heavy getting his a$$ kicked.

il Padrino Ute · 01-07-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Actually your friend is off....by oh say about 95% of fights that actually occur end up on the ground. Most fights end and end quickly, and most inevitably end up on the ground.

You can choose to refer to Liddell as an average puncher. One shot by Liddell to Gatti's noggin would end the fight and end it quickly.

Now Mayweather might be a different story, but if he also got caught with one of Liddell's shots the fight would be over,,,and again, over quickly.

If we're talking a straight boxing match,,,then the sweet science might win over, but if it's a MMA style match where punching, grappling and holds are brought into play people forget that Liddell's ground defense and holds are underated and he rarely has to use them because he's smart enough to not get into those situations. Randy Couture was one of the few who could frustrate Liddell into that position.

In a flat out street fight MMA style the boxers you could suggest would be lucky to last a minute against someone like Liddell.

In his prime, Ali would have destroyed Liddell, no matter what ring they were in. He was lightning quick, had a huge punch with either hand and could get into anyone's head. He's not called the greatest for nothing.

I believe before he went wacko, Tyson could have taken Liddell easily as well, no matter the fight. A street brawler who was trained just enough in boxing to destroy the competition.

Lennox Lewis. Evander Holyfield and guys like this would beat him as well.

It just bothers me that boxing has gone downhill like it has. Thanks a lot, Don King. Jerk.

MikeWaters · 01-07-2007, 11:43 PM

Muhammed Ali, according to my boxing friend, is not considered the greatest pound-for-pound fighter of all time by most people. He's in the top 10 for sure.

il Padrino Ute · 01-07-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Muhammed Ali, according to my boxing friend, is not considered the greatest pound-for-pound fighter of all time by most people. He's in the top 10 for sure.

That's more than likely a fair assessment, especially when Ali was his own biggest fan.

Who does your friend consider the best pound for pound fighter? Perhaps Sugar Ray Robinson?

But back to UFC/Pride vs. boxing, these are two different things. Apples to oranges, IMO. I just happen to prefer boxing.

RockyBalboa · 01-08-2007, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

very average heavyweight boxing contenders would beat Liddell in boxing.

boxing is not something you pick up in 2 months. Liddell would just be another muscle-bound heavy getting his a$$ kicked.

With all due respect, this is a topic you clearly don't really know much about.

cougjunkie · 01-08-2007, 04:18 AM

One thing Liddell is a light heavy weight, and if it is so easy for boxers to step in to UFC and win, then why dont more do it? the purses in UFC are becoming increasingly larger, the ORtiz Liddell fight had more pay per view buys than the last 3 heavy weight title fights combined. The way you make it sound a mediocre boxer could come in and dominate, why arent more journey men joining UFC then?

and to put this to rest. Jens Pulver has boxed professionally and is a UFC icon, he was just on ESPNs tuesday night fights not to long ago and here is what he said.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=1833

MMA vs Boxing
So, Jens, which sport is tougher -- MMA or boxing?

"MMA," he answered emphatically, "there's so much more to worry about. So many more weapons are being thrown at you that it's without a doubt the tougher sport as far as the elements that can end a fight. Whereas boxing it's just hands. If somebody's got better hands maybe they can get them through and knock you out. But in MMA, man, I can knock you out with my knees; I can knock you out with my kicks, my elbows. I can plum you up. You can't just get away with just punching. I can take you down, submit you. I can choke you. There's just too many more factors that can end a fight in MMA. It's like playing chess with a regular person then playing chess against a pro. That's what MMA is. There are so many more elements, you know. You have to train for everything and that's what makes it harder.

bluegoose · 01-08-2007, 04:33 AM

I recall an interview back when I was in high school with a guy from my hometown who was the reigning heavyweight kickboxing champion. This was back when Tyson was in his prime, feared by everyone in the business.

This guy, I'm sorry but I can't for the life of me remember his name, was asked what would happen if he and Tyson were placed in a ring. He basically said that if they were both allowed to use their specialties, he would knock Tyson out 9 times out of 10. A boxer would stand no chance against a skilled kickboxer able to use his feet.

I would tend to believe him and anyone who says a good MMA guy could take a good boxer.

MikeWaters · 01-08-2007, 12:04 PM

Show me a MMA fight in which someone won with kicks. As far as I can tell the ratio of punches to kicks is something like 95:5.

Tyson was never a good boxer. Probably the most overrated boxer of all time. But may have also been the best-managed boxer of all time.

That kickboxer is FOS.

I'm betting that purses in boxing are still much higher than purses in UFC. People in boxing have invested their entire lives in the sport. Since they were kids. Switching to UFC is a big step, sending the message "I have failed in boxing." i.e. Butterbean. A true boxing contender, it seems, would have no incentive to leave boxing. A bad boxer might.

Does anyone have a link to purses in the UFC?

01-08-2007, 04:18 AM	#38
cougjunkie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 5,741	One thing Liddell is a light heavy weight, and if it is so easy for boxers to step in to UFC and win, then why dont more do it? the purses in UFC are becoming increasingly larger, the ORtiz Liddell fight had more pay per view buys than the last 3 heavy weight title fights combined. The way you make it sound a mediocre boxer could come in and dominate, why arent more journey men joining UFC then? and to put this to rest. Jens Pulver has boxed professionally and is a UFC icon, he was just on ESPNs tuesday night fights not to long ago and here is what he said. http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=1833 MMA vs Boxing So, Jens, which sport is tougher -- MMA or boxing? "MMA," he answered emphatically, "there's so much more to worry about. So many more weapons are being thrown at you that it's without a doubt the tougher sport as far as the elements that can end a fight. Whereas boxing it's just hands. If somebody's got better hands maybe they can get them through and knock you out. But in MMA, man, I can knock you out with my knees; I can knock you out with my kicks, my elbows. I can plum you up. You can't just get away with just punching. I can take you down, submit you. I can choke you. There's just too many more factors that can end a fight in MMA. It's like playing chess with a regular person then playing chess against a pro. That's what MMA is. There are so many more elements, you know. You have to train for everything and that's what makes it harder. __________________ LINCECUM!

01-07-2007, 10:53 PM	#33
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	very average heavyweight boxing contenders would beat Liddell in boxing. boxing is not something you pick up in 2 months. Liddell would just be another muscle-bound heavy getting his a$$ kicked.

01-07-2007, 11:43 PM	#35
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Muhammed Ali, according to my boxing friend, is not considered the greatest pound-for-pound fighter of all time by most people. He's in the top 10 for sure.

01-08-2007, 04:33 AM	#39
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	I recall an interview back when I was in high school with a guy from my hometown who was the reigning heavyweight kickboxing champion. This was back when Tyson was in his prime, feared by everyone in the business. This guy, I'm sorry but I can't for the life of me remember his name, was asked what would happen if he and Tyson were placed in a ring. He basically said that if they were both allowed to use their specialties, he would knock Tyson out 9 times out of 10. A boxer would stand no chance against a skilled kickboxer able to use his feet. I would tend to believe him and anyone who says a good MMA guy could take a good boxer.

01-08-2007, 12:04 PM	#40
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Show me a MMA fight in which someone won with kicks. As far as I can tell the ratio of punches to kicks is something like 95:5. Tyson was never a good boxer. Probably the most overrated boxer of all time. But may have also been the best-managed boxer of all time. That kickboxer is FOS. I'm betting that purses in boxing are still much higher than purses in UFC. People in boxing have invested their entire lives in the sport. Since they were kids. Switching to UFC is a big step, sending the message "I have failed in boxing." i.e. Butterbean. A true boxing contender, it seems, would have no incentive to leave boxing. A bad boxer might. Does anyone have a link to purses in the UFC?