Anson Winder: Chimera - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 01-19-2014, 11:37 PM

What does this guy have to do to get some minutes?

Remember early in his career when Rose asked him to be the point guard until Carlino was eligible? It wasn't his natural position but he dutifully filled the role.

Admittedly, there have been times when he looked raw and his shot has not always been reliable. And there are only so many minutes to share on this team.

but BYU needs some defense and he is one of the better players of keeping his feet in front of the offensive player. He rebounds, he makes assists and is a team player.

Contrast that with Haws, whom I know is a much better, natural shooter. And yes, he should always take our free throws, but Haws plays little to no defense, rebounds half heartedly, rarely makes an assist. When he's on, he can shoot a lot of points in a short period, but he also can be blocked because of bad judgment. I am not saying Haws should be benched. Haws has a place on the team.

But doesn't Winder. And what of Bartley?

So Winder has the half of his life, and then he promptly sits for most of the second half. Why?

There are only two defensive minded individuals on this team. Kyle and Anson. Josh Sharpe does some but he is often asked to guard players much bigger and/or quicker.

Kyle can score. Josh can't. Anson can also score.

Can't Rose give Anson a little more love?

MikeWaters · 01-20-2014, 12:25 AM

Because normally he is a brick layer.

Archaea · 01-20-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Because normally he is a brick layer.

He has never received consistent minutes. I'll admit his shot, especially as a freshman was unreliable. Last year he had one stellar game and then some ups and downs.

However, I am NOT advocating him for his offense but rather for his defense, rebounding and willingness to distribute. Something many of the other players fail to do. We have a serious lack of defensive play, excepting Kyle, who is BYU's MVP this year. That is saying something coming off a mission.

MikeWaters · 01-20-2014, 04:02 PM

The problem for him is that halford is better and so is Bartley. Winder has never improved.

Archaea · 01-20-2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The problem for him is that halford is better and so is Bartley. Winder has never improved.

Both have better offensive upside.

Halford is not better on defense or rebounding.
Bartley makes a lot of freshman mistakes and right now has found the bench.

I disagree that he hasn't improved, as his shot is much better than it was as a freshman, which was admittedly very unreliable. He also doesn't make as many stupid risky moves on defense that freshmen are wont to make.

MikeWaters · 01-21-2014, 02:49 PM

His career stats:

Career GP GS MIN AVG FG-FGA FG% 3P-3PA 3P% FT-FTA FT% OFF DEF REB AVG AST AVG BLK STL PF TO PTS AVG
2010-2011 0 0 0 N/A 0-0 N/A 0-0 N/A 0-0 N/A 0 0 0 N/A 0 N/A 0 0 0 0 0 N/A
2011-2012 34 15 551 16.2 48-131 .366 25-84 .298 26-41 .634 3 50 53 1.6 57 1.7 3 35 40 32 147 4.3
2012-2013 31 1 250 8.1 19-50 .380 5-20 .250 21-33 .636 8 24 32 1.0 16 0.5 2 13 28 9 64 2.1
2013-2014 20 2 292 14.6 43-85 .506 15-41 .366 17-26 .654 3 28 31 1.6 27 1.4 1 9 30 8 118 5.9
CAREER 85 18 1093 12.9 110-266 .414 45-145 .310 64-100 .640 14 102 116 1.4 100 1.2 6 57 98 49 329 3.9

http://byucougars.com/athlete/m-basketball/anson-winder

He's shooting better this year. But he had some games at the beginning of the year where the other team was leaving him open and he couldn't hit a thing. Then Bartley came in and performed better. And frankly Halford has performed better as well.

I would say the gap in defense between Winder and those two is negligible. Winder is no more a shut down defender than those two.

His redshirt freshman year, when he played big minutes, he shot .366 from the field. That is BAD. That includes layups. That means he was was probably shooting under .300 for jump shots.

I know you like the kid cause he's from Las Vegas. But I would argue he does not deserve to have all these minutes over Bartley. Bartley's upside is MUCH greater. And his current performance exceed's Winder's. What kind of minutes is Winder going to get next year? Probably less.

MikeWaters · 01-21-2014, 02:54 PM

Bartley is a better shooter, he is more athletic and explosive. And can get to the rim better. The fact he is a better athlete indicates to me that he will also be a better defender.

Since Bartley was only getting time when Rose was playing his awful zone defense, it's hard to make good evaluations on Bartley's defense.

MikeWaters · 01-21-2014, 03:39 PM

Another downside to Winder is that he is a career 63-65% free throw shooter. For that reason alone he is a liability in crunch time.

Halford is an 85% FT shooter.

Halford has 0.037 steals per minute this season. Winder has 0.031 steals per minute. And actually they have played comparable minutes. Halford has 324 minutes and Winder has 292. Steals certainly don't tell the entire story of defense, but the eyeball test doesn't tell me that Winder is so much better at defense that he is worth his offensive liabilities (which are generally severe).

Archaea · 01-21-2014, 05:42 PM

I understand the offensive comparison, but disagree with your defensive conclusions.

The steals analogy is a good example of a statistic being meaningless or not showing the complete picture.

In Anson's freshman year, he would either get a steal or get burned. Now he's making less of an attempt to make a steal but stays in front of his man better. Skylar goes for the steal or gets burned. It appears Rose chooses offense over defense most of the time, and in that matter Halford makes more sense. Especially regarding FTs.

I would ascribe the same problems to Bartley. Which makes me scratch my head why he now gets the least minutes of the guards. Juggling minutes is never easy.

MikeWaters · 01-21-2014, 08:35 PM

Winder is getting more time than he deserves right now. I'd like to see if he could follow up his stellar performance in last game with another good game. I suspect he will return to his normal bricklaying self from the outside.

Remember, someone like Halford doesn't need to score to be effective. Just his presence at the 3 point line spaces the floor. Winder can't space the floor like that as a 2-guard.

And you still don't have a retort about Winder vs. Bartley on D. Bartley is much more athletic. If the answer is that simply Bartley is less experienced, then the way to remedy that quickly is to give him experience.

01-19-2014, 11:37 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Anson Winder: Chimera What does this guy have to do to get some minutes? Remember early in his career when Rose asked him to be the point guard until Carlino was eligible? It wasn't his natural position but he dutifully filled the role. Admittedly, there have been times when he looked raw and his shot has not always been reliable. And there are only so many minutes to share on this team. but BYU needs some defense and he is one of the better players of keeping his feet in front of the offensive player. He rebounds, he makes assists and is a team player. Contrast that with Haws, whom I know is a much better, natural shooter. And yes, he should always take our free throws, but Haws plays little to no defense, rebounds half heartedly, rarely makes an assist. When he's on, he can shoot a lot of points in a short period, but he also can be blocked because of bad judgment. I am not saying Haws should be benched. Haws has a place on the team. But doesn't Winder. And what of Bartley? So Winder has the half of his life, and then he promptly sits for most of the second half. Why? There are only two defensive minded individuals on this team. Kyle and Anson. Josh Sharpe does some but he is often asked to guard players much bigger and/or quicker. Kyle can score. Josh can't. Anson can also score. Can't Rose give Anson a little more love? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

01-21-2014, 05:42 PM	#9
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	I understand the offensive comparison, but disagree with your defensive conclusions. The steals analogy is a good example of a statistic being meaningless or not showing the complete picture. In Anson's freshman year, he would either get a steal or get burned. Now he's making less of an attempt to make a steal but stays in front of his man better. Skylar goes for the steal or gets burned. It appears Rose chooses offense over defense most of the time, and in that matter Halford makes more sense. Especially regarding FTs. I would ascribe the same problems to Bartley. Which makes me scratch my head why he now gets the least minutes of the guards. Juggling minutes is never easy. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

01-20-2014, 12:25 AM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Because normally he is a brick layer.

01-20-2014, 04:02 PM	#4
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	The problem for him is that halford is better and so is Bartley. Winder has never improved.

01-21-2014, 02:49 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	His career stats: Career GP GS MIN AVG FG-FGA FG% 3P-3PA 3P% FT-FTA FT% OFF DEF REB AVG AST AVG BLK STL PF TO PTS AVG 2010-2011 0 0 0 N/A 0-0 N/A 0-0 N/A 0-0 N/A 0 0 0 N/A 0 N/A 0 0 0 0 0 N/A 2011-2012 34 15 551 16.2 48-131 .366 25-84 .298 26-41 .634 3 50 53 1.6 57 1.7 3 35 40 32 147 4.3 2012-2013 31 1 250 8.1 19-50 .380 5-20 .250 21-33 .636 8 24 32 1.0 16 0.5 2 13 28 9 64 2.1 2013-2014 20 2 292 14.6 43-85 .506 15-41 .366 17-26 .654 3 28 31 1.6 27 1.4 1 9 30 8 118 5.9 CAREER 85 18 1093 12.9 110-266 .414 45-145 .310 64-100 .640 14 102 116 1.4 100 1.2 6 57 98 49 329 3.9 http://byucougars.com/athlete/m-basketball/anson-winder He's shooting better this year. But he had some games at the beginning of the year where the other team was leaving him open and he couldn't hit a thing. Then Bartley came in and performed better. And frankly Halford has performed better as well. I would say the gap in defense between Winder and those two is negligible. Winder is no more a shut down defender than those two. His redshirt freshman year, when he played big minutes, he shot .366 from the field. That is BAD. That includes layups. That means he was was probably shooting under .300 for jump shots. I know you like the kid cause he's from Las Vegas. But I would argue he does not deserve to have all these minutes over Bartley. Bartley's upside is MUCH greater. And his current performance exceed's Winder's. What kind of minutes is Winder going to get next year? Probably less.

01-21-2014, 02:54 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Bartley is a better shooter, he is more athletic and explosive. And can get to the rim better. The fact he is a better athlete indicates to me that he will also be a better defender. Since Bartley was only getting time when Rose was playing his awful zone defense, it's hard to make good evaluations on Bartley's defense.

01-21-2014, 03:39 PM	#8
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Another downside to Winder is that he is a career 63-65% free throw shooter. For that reason alone he is a liability in crunch time. Halford is an 85% FT shooter. Halford has 0.037 steals per minute this season. Winder has 0.031 steals per minute. And actually they have played comparable minutes. Halford has 324 minutes and Winder has 292. Steals certainly don't tell the entire story of defense, but the eyeball test doesn't tell me that Winder is so much better at defense that he is worth his offensive liabilities (which are generally severe).

01-21-2014, 08:35 PM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Winder is getting more time than he deserves right now. I'd like to see if he could follow up his stellar performance in last game with another good game. I suspect he will return to his normal bricklaying self from the outside. Remember, someone like Halford doesn't need to score to be effective. Just his presence at the 3 point line spaces the floor. Winder can't space the floor like that as a 2-guard. And you still don't have a retort about Winder vs. Bartley on D. Bartley is much more athletic. If the answer is that simply Bartley is less experienced, then the way to remedy that quickly is to give him experience.