The Church on 'HLM' - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 12-03-2008, 03:11 AM

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb...01997-2008.pdf

Letter from Loren Dunn to M. Russell Ballard.

Outside interest is because of the Wirthlin angle. Apparently the great-nephews of the seventy Wirthlin (Dick Wirthlin) were the ones who claimed their kid was taught about gays in Massachusetts.

http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?...&sc3=&id=83942
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6176

I don't really find that interesting.

What I find interesting:
1. Marlin Jensen intimately involved from over a decade ago in fighting against gay marriage.
2. The church doesn't want to be the public face of this fight. Do the heavy-lifting but don't make it obvious, drag the Catholics along for the ride.
3. The idea of fighting against civil unions that approximate gay marriage
4. The idea of promoting things like being for hospital visits as a form of political compromise (not because they believe it is the right thing).

You can see how this all played out in the case of Prop 8. Who was in CA (among others)? Marlin Jensen. Of course, Br. Jensen warned against excesses of homophobia, but nonetheless he was there to carry the water.

We saw the church becoming the public face of this but not really enjoying it. They were the victims of their own success.

We now know, for those of us that look carefully, that the church is opposed to civil unions that approximate marriage. It's not a semantic fight. It's a fight against gays having the rights contained in legal marriage.

We saw the church lamely offer hospital visitation rights as something they supported, making it sound like they support civil unions, when in fact they don't.

Interesting to see some of the inner workings here.

Levin · 12-03-2008, 03:55 AM

Has Marlin's star dimmed for you? Apparently he was the hope of many for a seat with the 12 to offer a moderating voice, and eventually the pulpit of prophet and the change of doctrine.

The pick by Monson of Wirthlin's successor will be fascinating: will it be a hardliner or a more moderate voice? Will he take the route of John Paul II and entrench the conservative forces or put a Gorbachev within the Politburo, sowing the seeds for a future glasnost?

MikeWaters · 12-03-2008, 04:58 AM

Marlin is what he is. I don't know him personally. I'm sure he does what he thinks is best.

Indy Coug · 12-03-2008, 11:30 AM

Hospital visitation rights have everything to do with overreaching, bloated HIPAA regs and nothing to do with gay marriage.

Tex · 12-03-2008, 01:32 PM

O Marlin! How are thou fallen!

12-03-2008, 03:11 AM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	The Church on 'HLM' http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb...01997-2008.pdf Letter from Loren Dunn to M. Russell Ballard. Outside interest is because of the Wirthlin angle. Apparently the great-nephews of the seventy Wirthlin (Dick Wirthlin) were the ones who claimed their kid was taught about gays in Massachusetts. http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?...&sc3=&id=83942 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6176 I don't really find that interesting. What I find interesting: 1. Marlin Jensen intimately involved from over a decade ago in fighting against gay marriage. 2. The church doesn't want to be the public face of this fight. Do the heavy-lifting but don't make it obvious, drag the Catholics along for the ride. 3. The idea of fighting against civil unions that approximate gay marriage 4. The idea of promoting things like being for hospital visits as a form of political compromise (not because they believe it is the right thing). You can see how this all played out in the case of Prop 8. Who was in CA (among others)? Marlin Jensen. Of course, Br. Jensen warned against excesses of homophobia, but nonetheless he was there to carry the water. We saw the church becoming the public face of this but not really enjoying it. They were the victims of their own success. We now know, for those of us that look carefully, that the church is opposed to civil unions that approximate marriage. It's not a semantic fight. It's a fight against gays having the rights contained in legal marriage. We saw the church lamely offer hospital visitation rights as something they supported, making it sound like they support civil unions, when in fact they don't. Interesting to see some of the inner workings here.

12-03-2008, 03:55 AM	#2
Levin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,484	Has Marlin's star dimmed for you? Apparently he was the hope of many for a seat with the 12 to offer a moderating voice, and eventually the pulpit of prophet and the change of doctrine. The pick by Monson of Wirthlin's successor will be fascinating: will it be a hardliner or a more moderate voice? Will he take the route of John Paul II and entrench the conservative forces or put a Gorbachev within the Politburo, sowing the seeds for a future glasnost? __________________ "Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12

12-03-2008, 01:32 PM	#5
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	O Marlin! How are thou fallen! __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

12-03-2008, 04:58 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Marlin is what he is. I don't know him personally. I'm sure he does what he thinks is best.

12-03-2008, 11:30 AM	#4
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Hospital visitation rights have everything to do with overreaching, bloated HIPAA regs and nothing to do with gay marriage.