LDS Woman at popular restaurant donated $100 for Prop 8 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 12-14-2008, 07:54 PM

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...5995847.column

And now her life is in turmoil, as the restaurant has been subject to protests and a boycott.

MikeWaters · 12-15-2008, 02:25 PM

One thing that situations like this remind me of: how many of these members are willing to consecrate everything they have for the church?

In this case, does she believe in the church leaders to the tune of $100 or does she believe in them to the tune of every material possession she owns?

It seems like she is somewhere between those two points.

Nowhere in the article do I read of Mormons rallying to her cause, nowhere do I read of Mormons coming to the restaurant, or Mormons replacing the people who no longer come on "gay night".

How much do we really believe?

Answer: not as much as we have covenanted. And it is not even close.

Tex · 12-15-2008, 02:27 PM

I wonder how the news stories would change had Prop 8 passed, and hordes of Mormons singled out individual gay No donors and harassed them.

MikeWaters · 12-15-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

I wonder how the news stories would change had Prop 8 passed, and hordes of Mormons singled out individual gay No donors and harassed them.

Tex, they are not at her house. They are at a business protesting.

At church yesterday I overheard a young adult complaining about the college he is attending that "even the religion teacher I have is gay." He was talking about transferring out.

This is not news. When social conservatives shun gay-oriented or gay-owned businesses, that is par for the course. I have read about Christian-sponsored boycotts of gay-friendly corporations for many years (like Disney). It was reported in the news.

People want to follow the Lord, but they want the acceptance of the world as well. And thus we see the conflict. Mormons want to dictate social policy, but they also want to be loved. And that has come into conflict. As it will in the future as well.

Tex · 12-15-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Tex, they are not at her house. They are at a business protesting.

At church yesterday I overheard a young adult complaining about the college he is attending that "even the religion teacher I have is gay." He was talking about transferring out.

This is not news. When social conservatives shun gay-oriented or gay-owned businesses, that is par for the course. I have read about Christian-sponsored boycotts of gay-friendly corporations for many years (like Disney). It was reported in the news.

People want to follow the Lord, but they want the acceptance of the world as well. And thus we see the conflict. Mormons want to dictate social policy, but they also want to be loved. And that has come into conflict. As it will in the future as well.

Did the business itself donate to the effort?

Also, boycott is one thing. Open protesting and harassment is another. Or maybe you didn't see this picture:

MikeWaters · 12-15-2008, 02:43 PM

What if the business had donated? It's a family-owned business.

Ok to protest in that case?

But this is outside the point I am making: that the church asks us to consecrate EVERYTHING. Members who have followed their leaders are finding out exactly what this feels like.

Tex · 12-15-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What if the business had donated? It's a family-owned business.

Ok to protest in that case?

To return to my original post, I'm simply curious on how the news reporting would reflect the reverse situation.

Imagine: Prop 8 fails. A member of the Church searches the donations records for a gay man who donated $100 to the No cause. He enlists his fellow ward members to march with angry shouting and "HATE" poster boards on the man's business ... which, oddly enough both employs and serves a sizeable number of Mormons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

But this is outside the point I am making: that the church asks us to consecrate EVERYTHING. Members who have followed their leaders are finding out exactly what this feels like.

I understand exactly the point you are making. I guess you're not catching on that I'm not taking the troll bait.

RedHeadGal · 12-15-2008, 03:08 PM

To me, the conflict here is between whether she was indeed acting an an individual or whether she was acting as an agent of her church. Yes, I understand you could do both at the same time, but it seems to me that before the vote, there was some pretty heavy pressure to "get in line" with the church. And now that it's over, there's plenty of "gee, I'm just a person, just an individual--why am I being singled out?" And the church as a unit is doing this as well.

The protests and boycott seem a bit much, and this particular story is sad. But if she did what she thought she should, then I say suck it up and keep moving forward.

I wasn't asked to consecrate anything for Prop 8. Would I be willing to? For that cause? Or any other? It depends. And I guess your point, Mike, is that's a bad thing.

MikeWaters · 12-15-2008, 03:18 PM

Most people don't expect that they will be actually asked to consecrate everything. Esp. over something they might not really believe in.

Donating $100 does not seem like overwhelming support and belief in the cause. I don't think she probably intended to uptick that donation from $100 to her job and livelihood, not to mention friendships and mental health.

Certainly it presents a dilemma when you are asked to get behind an effort you don't really support. What if the church asked you to get behind teaching creationism in schools and asked you to donate thousands of dollars? For someone like me, that would be anathema. Even to give $1.

Maybe the lesson is this: if you do not believe in it to give thousands of dollars, then don't give $100. Or $1.

CardiacCoug · 12-15-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Maybe the lesson is this: if you do not believe in it to give thousands of dollars, then don't give $100. Or $1.

I agree.

12-14-2008, 07:54 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	LDS Woman at popular restaurant donated $100 for Prop 8 http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...5995847.column And now her life is in turmoil, as the restaurant has been subject to protests and a boycott.

12-15-2008, 02:27 PM	#3
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	I wonder how the news stories would change had Prop 8 passed, and hordes of Mormons singled out individual gay No donors and harassed them. __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

12-15-2008, 02:25 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	One thing that situations like this remind me of: how many of these members are willing to consecrate everything they have for the church? In this case, does she believe in the church leaders to the tune of $100 or does she believe in them to the tune of every material possession she owns? It seems like she is somewhere between those two points. Nowhere in the article do I read of Mormons rallying to her cause, nowhere do I read of Mormons coming to the restaurant, or Mormons replacing the people who no longer come on "gay night". How much do we really believe? Answer: not as much as we have covenanted. And it is not even close.

12-15-2008, 02:43 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	What if the business had donated? It's a family-owned business. Ok to protest in that case? But this is outside the point I am making: that the church asks us to consecrate EVERYTHING. Members who have followed their leaders are finding out exactly what this feels like.

12-15-2008, 03:08 PM	#8
RedHeadGal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: DC Posts: 995	To me, the conflict here is between whether she was indeed acting an an individual or whether she was acting as an agent of her church. Yes, I understand you could do both at the same time, but it seems to me that before the vote, there was some pretty heavy pressure to "get in line" with the church. And now that it's over, there's plenty of "gee, I'm just a person, just an individual--why am I being singled out?" And the church as a unit is doing this as well. The protests and boycott seem a bit much, and this particular story is sad. But if she did what she thought she should, then I say suck it up and keep moving forward. I wasn't asked to consecrate anything for Prop 8. Would I be willing to? For that cause? Or any other? It depends. And I guess your point, Mike, is that's a bad thing.

12-15-2008, 03:18 PM	#9
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Most people don't expect that they will be actually asked to consecrate everything. Esp. over something they might not really believe in. Donating $100 does not seem like overwhelming support and belief in the cause. I don't think she probably intended to uptick that donation from $100 to her job and livelihood, not to mention friendships and mental health. Certainly it presents a dilemma when you are asked to get behind an effort you don't really support. What if the church asked you to get behind teaching creationism in schools and asked you to donate thousands of dollars? For someone like me, that would be anathema. Even to give $1. Maybe the lesson is this: if you do not believe in it to give thousands of dollars, then don't give $100. Or $1.