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Old 09-30-2009, 11:32 PM   #1
Archaea
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Default Concurrent histories or histories near the lifetime of Christ

in determining the historical Christ based on empirical evidence, using that term loosely, we are left with the rather suspicious entry by Josephus, Book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3, who seemed to be a Roman profligate by the time he started writing,

Quote:
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
Quote:
Γίνεται δὲ κατὰ τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον Ἰησοῦς σοφὸς ἀνήρ, εἴγε ἄνδρα αὐτὸν λέγειν χρή: ἦν γὰρ παραδόξων ἔργων ποιητής, διδάσκαλος ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἡδονῇ τἀληθῆ δεχομένων, καὶ πολλοὺς μὲν Ἰουδαίους, πολλοὺς δὲ καὶ τοῦ Ἑλληνικοῦ ἐπηγάγετο: ὁ χριστὸς οὗτος ἦν. καὶ αὐτὸν ἐνδείξει τῶν πρώτων ἀνδρῶν παρ᾽ ἡμῖν σταυρῷ ἐπιτετιμηκότος Πιλάτου οὐκ ἐπαύσαντο οἱ τὸ πρῶτον ἀγαπήσαντες: ἐφάνη γὰρ αὐτοῖς τρίτην ἔχων ἡμέραν πάλιν ζῶν τῶν θείων προφητῶν ταῦτά τε καὶ ἄλλα μυρία περὶ αὐτοῦ θαυμάσια εἰρηκότων. εἰς ἔτι τε νῦν τῶν Χριστιανῶν ἀπὸ τοῦδε ὠνομασμένον οὐκ ἐπέλιπε τὸ φῦλον.
and Tacitus, Annals, 15:44.

Quote:
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians [or Chrestians] by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.
The curious aspect of Tacitus, rising to the level of proconsul mistaking Pontius Pilate for a procurator when he was a prefect, seems to indicate a mistake, and his referencing the Christians for starting a fire which he wishes to attribute to Nero is also curious. Moreover, his version differs from Suetonios regarding Nero.

It would be ironic if both contemporaneous "histories" regarding the Christ were fraudulent, and we were left with no contemporaneous record that he even lived.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:43 PM   #2
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For those more astute than I, meaning most, the "text" by Josephus is not believed to be authentic because of the declaration by "Josephus" for Christ to be the Christ. It's based on a more contemporary citation by Origen, who as a Christian would have cited if it had been extant at the time. And Josephus may have referred to Christ in his reference to the death of James. From what I remember, Eusebius is believed by some at least to have been the author of the Christ passages within Josephus. Naturally, my summary distill very complex analyses of word analysis and style evaluation, as well as a comparison of Eusebius's style.
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