LDS women's attitudes toward conjugal relations

[Archaea]

vein. I have it, but for many, many LDS women, they find no joy in sex, and it consequently harms marriages and sometimes ultimately destroys them.

It is my belief that a little more emphasis on the good parts of physical intimacy and we wouldn't see this problem as often. or change the abstinence talk to include discussion that those feelings are good feelings that simply need to be channelled properly.

[tooblue]

Adam is quoting scripture out of context and suggesting unrighteous dominion is a principle of the gospel ... this very conference Elder Oaks warned against Adam's exact interpretation. We need only go back to talks given in priesthood sessions in the past couple of years to confirm that Adam's interpretation is incorrect.

We cannot hide behind the excuse that one might find such scripture outdated to provide justification for our own ignorance. President Hinckley spoke on this very subject, very directly and with great passion.

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm$xhitlist_q= %5BRank+500%5D%28%5BField+general+conference%3Aunr ighteous%20dominion%5D%29$xhitlist_x=Advanced$xhit list_s=relevance-weight$xhitlist_d=Magazines$xhitlist_hc=%5BXML%5D% 5Bkwic%2C0%5D$xhitlist_xsl=xhitlist.xsl$xhitlist_v pc=first$xhitlist_sel=title%3Bpath%3Bcontent-type%3Bhome-title%3Bhit-context%3Bfield%3Azr%3Bfield%3ARef

“The wife you choose will be your equal. Paul declared, “Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:11).

In the marriage companionship there is neither inferiority nor superiority. The woman does not walk ahead of the man; neither does the man walk ahead of the woman. They walk side by side as a son and daughter of God on an eternal journey.

She is not your servant, your chattel, nor anything of the kind.”

President Hinckley

[Archaea]

the scripture he quotes applies to priesthood responsiblities, but it doesn't appear he would disagree with the scriptures quoted by you.

[tooblue]

As for being offended by my statement that wives should give themselves to their husbands I encourage you to read Paul in Eph. chapter 5:

He is not merely talking about the priesthood!

[tooblue]

Here is another great article:

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm$xhitlist_q= %5BRank+500%5D%28%5BField+general+conference%3Awif es%20submit%20to%20husbands%5D%29$xhitlist_x=Advan ced$xhitlist_s=relevance-weight$xhitlist_d=Magazines$xhitlist_hc=%5BXML%5D% 5Bkwic%2C0%5D$xhitlist_xsl=xhitlist.xsl$xhitlist_v pc=first$xhitlist_sel=title%3Bpath%3Bcontent-type%3Bhome-title%3Bhit-context%3Bfield%3Azr%3Bfield%3ARef

“The Man of Power is one who presides—

By persuasion. He uses no demeaning words or behavior, does not manipulate others, appeals to the best in everyone, and respects the dignity and agency of all humankind—men, women, boys, and girls.

By long-suffering. He waits when necessary and listens to the humblest or youngest person. He is tolerant of the ideas of others and avoids quick judgments and anger.

By gentleness. He uses a smile more often than a frown. He is not gruff or loud or frightening; he does not discipline in anger.

By meekness. He is not puffed up, does not dominate conversations, and is willing to conform his will to the will of God.

By love unfeigned. He does not pretend. He is sincere, giving honest love without reservation even when others are unlovable.

By kindness. He practices courtesy and thoughtfulness in little things as well as in the more obvious things.

By pure knowledge. He avoids half-truths and seeks to be empathetic.

Without hypocrisy. He practices the principles he teaches. He knows he is not always right and is willing to admit his mistakes and say “I’m sorry.”

Without guile. He is not sly or crafty in his dealings with others, but is honest and authentic when describing his feelings."



another one:

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm$xhitlist_q= %5BRank+500%5D%28%5BField+general+conference%3Awif es%20submit%20to%20husbands%5D%29$xhitlist_x=Advan ced$xhitlist_s=relevance-weight$xhitlist_d=Magazines$xhitlist_hc=%5BXML%5D% 5Bkwic%2C0%5D$xhitlist_xsl=xhitlist.xsl$xhitlist_v pc=first$xhitlist_sel=title%3Bpath%3Bcontent-type%3Bhome-title%3Bhit-context%3Bfield%3Azr%3Bfield%3ARef

“This is precisely the blessing the Lord gave Eve at the time of the Fall. “Thy desire shall be to thy husband,” he told her, “and he shall rule over thee” (Gen. 3:16). Unfortunately, some people have difficulty understanding this statement or correctly applying the principle it expresses to their own lives. They feel the statement demeans women, and some men incorrectly use it as an excuse to exercise unrighteous dominion.”

“In October 1993 general conference, Elder Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve said: “Should a man ‘exercise control or dominion or compulsion … in any degree of unrighteousness,’ he violates ‘the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.’ Then ‘the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved.’ Unless he repents he will lose his blessings” (Ensign, November 1993, 22; see D&C 84:39; D&C 121:37).”

____________________________

When you criticize the admonition given in conference to remain modest and draw a connection between men who turn to porn in response to such modesty your very thoughts and words are void of charity, love, gentleness, understanding etc. The very act of criticism in and of itself is unholy in the eyes of the Lord –further compounding your inability to act righteously in the priesthood.

A woman may only submit to the husband AS HE HEARKENS TO THE LORD … And what about hearkening to the Lords appointed servants?

Your words and the scriptures you quoted condemn you.

[MikeWaters]

I always wondered why every Priesthood session there is a talk about men practicing unrighteous dominion on their wives.

I always thought, "are there that many neanderthals out there? Do we need to hear about this every time?"

I guess there is a reason for everything, LOL.

I don't buy your philosophy, Adam, and maybe it you bought mine you would get more action.

[Archaea]

Men must respect their wives, must respect what no means and women control their bodies.

Conversely it would be an exercise of unrighteous dominion by a woman to simply refuse to share herself, as would it be for a man, if he were the withholder (yeah right, what guy withholds sexual favors from his spouse, it'll never happen0.

Adam's point is that a woman simply can't say, "I have all the power and no duty with respect to sex."

If you read "And they were not ashamed, " by Joyce Brotherson, you will read quotes by President Kimball that state, couples have an obligation to each other to have "proper" sex, stated in a manner that it is unrighteous, except in matters of health, to refrain from having sex.

[MikeWaters]

I don't really think of my marriage in terms of me being in charge.

Maybe that it is a sin, but that's the way it is. Do I probably operate like I'm in charge? Maybe most of the time. But it's really not how I think.

[Archaea]

perhaps some priesthood responsibility with me, but I know I'm not in charge.

I've seen the Boss's job and I don't want it.

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by Adam

There is another problem out there, one that is not addressed sufficiently. The problem of wives not hearkening unto their husbands, especially in normal healthy rightous sexual ways.

Adam, When you say "Hearken", do you in fact mean bow down to or resign oneself to? Jump when he says jump? Roll over when he says roll over?

I've read the scriptures and I've been to the temple. And while I understand neither very well (who really does?), I think that the furthest stretch of my imagination could not interprete your scriptural references to mean that a wife "submitting" herself or "hearkening" to her husband as meaning that she must make herself available at every sexual whim of her husband.

I fully understand that there may be problem with sexual expectations in our culture. I've heard more than one person say that sex is for procreation only. Perhaps more emphasis on pre-marital counselling and education would help to fix this problem. But to expect that anything will or should ever be said over the pulpit or in the Beehive classroom is ridiculous.

You make it sound like tooblue is on a different planet with his interpretation of your comments. But I've read the dialogue I agree that these two issues are not as separate as you make them out to be. I'm sorry, but tooblue is right on with this one.