Pace internal memo on Satanic rituals - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Dan · 11-02-2005, 10:29 PM

... I am not necessarily trying to calim everything Pace said was true, just that the memo itself was legitimate. I was wondering things along the lines of what you were speculating. Has anyone here known people involved in experiences like this, or any other understanding of these things? I guess, if someone was a perpetrator of such, they would not come forward, but, you get the thrust of my question.

MikeWaters · 11-02-2005, 10:34 PM

I have encountered people who purported to be victims of satanic ritual abuse.

I tend towards the idea that this is a honest fabrication. The people are sincere, but the events did not occur.

But I try to keep an open mind. I don't rule out the possibility.

creekster · 11-02-2005, 11:11 PM

ritualistic satanic child abusers? LOL.

I don't know anyone personally, but I did have the 'benefit' of reviewing the compelte trial record from the cases i mentioned above. IT was sickening becasue if true, it was hard to believe that anyone could systematically destroy their own child's life as these people were accused of doing or, if not true, that anyone could destroy families by manipulating young children to beleive in crazy stories.

Here is a true story. When I was in 6th grade a kid in our class named Jack claimed that he had seen the devil in the bathroom mirror. I relaize this is silly, but Jack was very theatrical and began to lead groups of kids into the bathroom, turn off the lights and tell everyone to close their eyes and then chant somehting like "Devil, devil let me see" or some such. He would then tell everyone to open their eyes and look into the mirror for a fleeting image of the devil. There, under the eerie glow of a UV light (which was the only light still on) these kids began to see the devil. Pretty soon virttually all of the 6th grade had fallen under Jack's suggestion and swore, and I mean they were earnest, that they had seen the devil, ever so breiefly, in the mirror.

This was not enough for Jack, of course. After a couple of days the drama was waning and so suddenly Jack claimed that the devil had reached from the mirror and began to choke him. He even displayed the red marks on his throat as proof. THis convinced us all over agian. (Why Jack would venture into a bathroom alone with the Devil was a question I didn't think to ask at the time.)

When the thrill of the choking wore off jack tried to claim that he was being levitated, but his attempts to 'jump' as proof were so incredibly absurd (and in hindsight sad) that the bloom was off the rose, so to sepak. Added to this was the fact that one fo the more level-headed students (I wish I could say it was me, but it wasn't) told a teacher why so many of us were repeatedly trooping off ot the bathroom in convoys with Jack. The teacher investigated and then held a meeting to point out how ridiculaous it all was and how embarassed we should all be.

As I look back, I know that I never saw the devil in the mirror. I owuld have sworn to almost anyone else that I had, however, and I convinced myself to believe it at the time. Moreover, having said I saw the devil, I could not later recant untiul everyone else did as well.

Look, the world has lots of evil; but most of it happens one on one or in little incremental and much mcuh more insidious ways. There probabyl are people that engage in ritualistic satanic worship and abuse, but I think it is very rare. More than likely, just like Jack and the cases I dealt with at the court, the claims result more from mass hysteria and suggested group think.

Frankly, I am surporised to know that Elder Pace actually wrote the memo, becasue I think it is very conclusionary and dimsisses the possibility of contrary conlusions in such a cavalier fashion. Steelblue is propbaly correct, IMO, when he says that the claims just can't be true, at least not in the numbers that are claimed.

Does anyone know why the memo was written and what happened as a result? The memo refers to monitoring the problem. How could they monitor it without stopping it?

Archaea · 11-03-2005, 12:15 AM

consider that it wasn't for general distribution, and we don't know how the committee received it. We don't know if it was repudiated or whether it was ever revised. We don't know if this is its original form.

Since it was never intended for publication, there really is not enough information to draw meaningful conclusions.

ute4ever · 11-03-2005, 12:55 AM

I find it strange that the two concurrent active threads in this forum are:

1) Mostly convincing each other that the flood was real and literal

2) Mostly convincing each other that satanic ritual abuse is exagerrated and inaccurate

MikeWaters · 11-03-2005, 01:52 AM

LOL. I guess I am one of the consistent ones.

I neither believe in a literal interpretation of the flood nor the literal version of gangs of Satanists.

myboynoah · 11-03-2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I find it strange that the two concurrent active threads in this forum are:

1) Mostly convincing each other that the flood was real and literal

2) Mostly convincing each other that satanic ritual abuse is exagerrated and inaccurate

Thank you for the chuckle.

:lol:

ute4ever · 11-03-2005, 08:05 PM

Naturally I thought of this thread when I came across this news headline:

"320 People Arrested for Sorcery"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051103/...pua_sorcery_dc

It is the #7 most popular news story of the day on Yahoo News

Archaea · 11-08-2005, 02:06 AM

http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php...icleId=2983423

MikeWaters · 11-08-2005, 02:10 AM

what a waste. that's putting it mildly.

more like "please God let me rain down hell on this man."

the avenging angel needs to get to work.

11-02-2005, 10:29 PM	#11
Dan Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Elk Grove, California Posts: 211	SteelBlue ... ... I am not necessarily trying to calim everything Pace said was true, just that the memo itself was legitimate. I was wondering things along the lines of what you were speculating. Has anyone here known people involved in experiences like this, or any other understanding of these things? I guess, if someone was a perpetrator of such, they would not come forward, but, you get the thrust of my question. __________________ Dan Temet Nosce - \"Know Thyself\"

11-02-2005, 11:11 PM	#13
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	Dan: Did you really just ask if any of us know ritualistic satanic child abusers? LOL. I don't know anyone personally, but I did have the 'benefit' of reviewing the compelte trial record from the cases i mentioned above. IT was sickening becasue if true, it was hard to believe that anyone could systematically destroy their own child's life as these people were accused of doing or, if not true, that anyone could destroy families by manipulating young children to beleive in crazy stories. Here is a true story. When I was in 6th grade a kid in our class named Jack claimed that he had seen the devil in the bathroom mirror. I relaize this is silly, but Jack was very theatrical and began to lead groups of kids into the bathroom, turn off the lights and tell everyone to close their eyes and then chant somehting like "Devil, devil let me see" or some such. He would then tell everyone to open their eyes and look into the mirror for a fleeting image of the devil. There, under the eerie glow of a UV light (which was the only light still on) these kids began to see the devil. Pretty soon virttually all of the 6th grade had fallen under Jack's suggestion and swore, and I mean they were earnest, that they had seen the devil, ever so breiefly, in the mirror. This was not enough for Jack, of course. After a couple of days the drama was waning and so suddenly Jack claimed that the devil had reached from the mirror and began to choke him. He even displayed the red marks on his throat as proof. THis convinced us all over agian. (Why Jack would venture into a bathroom alone with the Devil was a question I didn't think to ask at the time.) When the thrill of the choking wore off jack tried to claim that he was being levitated, but his attempts to 'jump' as proof were so incredibly absurd (and in hindsight sad) that the bloom was off the rose, so to sepak. Added to this was the fact that one fo the more level-headed students (I wish I could say it was me, but it wasn't) told a teacher why so many of us were repeatedly trooping off ot the bathroom in convoys with Jack. The teacher investigated and then held a meeting to point out how ridiculaous it all was and how embarassed we should all be. As I look back, I know that I never saw the devil in the mirror. I owuld have sworn to almost anyone else that I had, however, and I convinced myself to believe it at the time. Moreover, having said I saw the devil, I could not later recant untiul everyone else did as well. Look, the world has lots of evil; but most of it happens one on one or in little incremental and much mcuh more insidious ways. There probabyl are people that engage in ritualistic satanic worship and abuse, but I think it is very rare. More than likely, just like Jack and the cases I dealt with at the court, the claims result more from mass hysteria and suggested group think. Frankly, I am surporised to know that Elder Pace actually wrote the memo, becasue I think it is very conclusionary and dimsisses the possibility of contrary conlusions in such a cavalier fashion. Steelblue is propbaly correct, IMO, when he says that the claims just can't be true, at least not in the numbers that are claimed. Does anyone know why the memo was written and what happened as a result? The memo refers to monitoring the problem. How could they monitor it without stopping it?

11-03-2005, 12:15 AM	#14
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	even if legit consider that it wasn't for general distribution, and we don't know how the committee received it. We don't know if it was repudiated or whether it was ever revised. We don't know if this is its original form. Since it was never intended for publication, there really is not enough information to draw meaningful conclusions. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

11-08-2005, 02:06 AM	#19
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Notice this link http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php...icleId=2983423 __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

11-02-2005, 10:34 PM	#12
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I have encountered people who purported to be victims of satanic ritual abuse. I tend towards the idea that this is a honest fabrication. The people are sincere, but the events did not occur. But I try to keep an open mind. I don't rule out the possibility.

11-03-2005, 12:55 AM	#15
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	I find it strange that the two concurrent active threads in this forum are: 1) Mostly convincing each other that the flood was real and literal 2) Mostly convincing each other that satanic ritual abuse is exagerrated and inaccurate

11-03-2005, 01:52 AM	#16
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	LOL. I guess I am one of the consistent ones. I neither believe in a literal interpretation of the flood nor the literal version of gangs of Satanists.

11-03-2005, 08:05 PM	#18
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Naturally I thought of this thread when I came across this news headline: "320 People Arrested for Sorcery" http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051103/...pua_sorcery_dc It is the #7 most popular news story of the day on Yahoo News

11-08-2005, 02:10 AM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	what a waste. that's putting it mildly. more like "please God let me rain down hell on this man." the avenging angel needs to get to work.