Anyone ever caught themselves saying...

[VAX77]

"He she isn't Mormon, but they are still a great guy/girl"

I grew up in the "mission field", went on a mission despite my many non-lds friends telling me how stupid it was(it was a hard thing to do when not many understand the mission thing), returned home honorably, temple marriage, graduated from BYU, etc. and lived in Utah for four years. After that, I got a job in OR and moved. Towards the end of my time in Utah, I one day said what is in quotes up top and almost shot myself. Utah is a great place in some respects, and although I take responsibility for my stupidity(see quotes again), I am so glad to be gone. The LDS culture in Utah is not the LDS gospel and although people are not perfect anywhere, I feel different and MUCH better going to Church up here as opposed to in Utah.

This or something similar ever happen to anyone else???[/u]

[VAX77]

"He she...." should be "He/She...."

Uncorrected, that could have a totally different meaning than what I intended :shock:

[il Padrino Ute]

and can agree that there are LDS folks in Utah that are as you describe, I wouldn't say that the LDS culture in Utah is not the LDS gospel. By saying that, it really makes you no different than those of whom you speak.

The LDS culture/gospel is exactly what one makes of it, no matter where one lives.

[outlier]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

The LDS culture/gospel is exactly what one makes of it, no matter where one lives.

OTOH, the idiom "the church is the same wherever you go" is an absolute joke. And there are different parts of the world where different people are going to find it easier to be who they want to be. Utah presents some challenges and social pressures that for someone who didn't grow up there seem strange and unfortunate.

For me, growing up outside of Utah was definitely a benefit, since church membership meant you *had to* stand for something, rather than expressing religion as the social default. I'm sure there are other people who do better growing up in Utah than elsewhere. Sure, we're all individually responsible for what we do in this life, but there are also environments that are better suited for us.

O

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

and can agree that there are LDS folks in Utah that are as you describe, I wouldn't say that the LDS culture in Utah is not the LDS gospel. By saying that, it really makes you no different than those of whom you speak.

The LDS culture/gospel is exactly what one makes of it, no matter where one lives.

IPU is a Ute, but sometimes he makes a lot of sense. :wink:

[VAX77]

IPU, you make a good point. BYU was what I made of it, and I did not necessarily have the other BYU experiences because I controlled who I hung out with, etc.

However, I have to tell you, like later replies, that the Church is different depending where you are at. If I was at Arzona state University, no matter who I hung out with and if I went to institute, it would not be anything like my experience at BYU

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by outlier

For me, growing up outside of Utah was definitely a benefit, since church membership meant you *had to* stand for something, rather than expressing religion as the social default. I'm sure there are other people who do better growing up in Utah than elsewhere. Sure, we're all individually responsible for what we do in this life, but there are also environments that are better suited for us.

O

I hope you don't really mean how that sounds. Having not grown up in Utah by your own admission, I marvel at your ability to speak to the experience with such authority. :?

I grew up in Utah and loved it. Had many, many opportunities where I "had to" stand for something, whether it was defending my faith, explaining my decision to go on a mission, or turning down plenty of opportunities to break the commandments. I experienced a wonderful Ward where people cared about one another and formed a true community and ate plenty of green Jello. It wasn't perfect, but one of the better wards, if the not the best ward I've lived in.

I've now lived longer outside Utah than inside. My wife and I see advantages and disadvantages to both. But with two daughters in YW and all the crap that currently surrounds them in their peer group (I'm talking about very serious crap here), we long for a few more kids that profess similar standards and a functioning YM/YW program. Something that even tries to mimic what they have in Utah would be nice.

[outlier]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Having not grown up in Utah by your own admission, I marvel at your ability to speak to the experience with such authority. :?

I know myself. I know Utah. Therefore, authority.

You're right, it's impossible to *know* what would have happened, and it's entirely in my own best psychological interests to believe that what did happen was what *should* have happened, but living outside the state allowed me to exhibit my contrarian nature by being a good little Mormon kid. It would have been difficult to express this nature within an predominantly LDS community without at some point leaving the path dictated by the church.

Utah has a lot of pluses and minuses and I didn't move away from there last week b/c I wanted a change of physical scenery (it was job-related). For me, though, having lived there for 4+1 years as a student and again for the past year, it has proven itself an awkward environment vis a vis my relationship with the church.

Not everyone has to believe Utah represents an ideal environment.

O

[il Padrino Ute]

nobody expects you to. But the truth is that you had the experiences you had in Utah because you either chose to have them or you allowed them to happen.

Certainly, Utah isn't for everyone and that's ok.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by outlier

I know myself. I know Utah. Therefore, authority.

You're right, it's impossible to *know* what would have happened, and it's entirely in my own best psychological interests to believe that what did happen was what *should* have happened, but living outside the state allowed me to exhibit my contrarian nature by being a good little Mormon kid. It would have been difficult to express this nature within an predominantly LDS community without at some point leaving the path dictated by the church.

Utah has a lot of pluses and minuses and I didn't move away from there last week b/c I wanted a change of physical scenery (it was job-related). For me, though, having lived there for 4+1 years as a student and again for the past year, it has proven itself an awkward environment vis a vis my relationship with the church.

Not everyone has to believe Utah represents an ideal environment.

Unless, of course, one limits the experiment to climate and weather.

Why do so many make this assumption? The school's demographics show otherwise (only 26 percent from Utah). It's more like a little colony of LDS American 20-somethings, a big 30,000 member singles ward with boundaries that encompass the U.S., if not the world. I suspect the attitudes and norms that one encounters at BYU are reflective of LDS culture in general, not exclusive to or caused by the local Utah culture. It is also safe to assume that most non-Utah BYU students have a limited idea of what it is like to really live in Utah, yet so many return after their years in Provo as self-appointed experts on, and many times, scoffers at how things are there.

Now I'm just getting cranky. I also have a better understanding of one reason why our Ute Fan brethren might find some BYU alums to be hard to take.

You're correct, you are the authority on your own contrarian self. I just believe that in the end, most people make choices because they are convinced of the correctness of the way, not based on the number of others choosing it. Even in Utah.