concerns people may have about the church.... - Page 3 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

fusnik11 · 12-21-2005, 04:50 PM

i would agree with steelblue....

we could even go more recent with an experience well documented....

ill play devils advocate on something....note im not comfortable doing this as it strikes me as odd the whole situation....

mark hoffman.

how could a man with his purpose being that to deceive and bring down the church fool and dupe the inspired brethren including our current prophet? what have leaders of the church said about this experience?

All-American · 12-21-2005, 06:24 PM

By the way, in the "one case," there was still plenty of reason to doubt, but I didn't think any of us would want to go into it.

Steelblue, I secretly suspect that you and I actually agree on all points; if my wording were better, we probably wouldn't be debating.

What I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to say is that I suspect that if we had all true information and no false information available regarding these issues, they probably wouldn't be as problematic as they are. Given this weakness, these issues do not trump those based on better documentation, such as the Book of Mormon, for example.

Indy Coug · 12-21-2005, 06:50 PM

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=jbms&id=202

I didn't read it, but the topic looks interesting.

SteelBlue · 12-21-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

Steelblue, I secretly suspect that you and I actually agree on all points; if my wording were better, we probably wouldn't be debating.

I was thinking the same thing as I was typing last night (not about your wording, about us actually being in agreement).

SteelBlue · 12-21-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusnik11

we could even go more recent with an experience well documented....

ill play devils advocate on something....note im not comfortable doing this as it strikes me as odd the whole situation....

mark hoffman.

how could a man with his purpose being that to deceive and bring down the church fool and dupe the inspired brethren including our current prophet? what have leaders of the church said about this experience?

This one doesn't bother me a bit Fus. I think the "problem" comes from our upbringing. We grow up thinking of our Prophets specifically and leadership in general as infallible. As we come to realize that they are imperfect men doing their best to fulfill their call we can allow for odd events like the Hoffman collections.

One of the things that really struck me reading Bushman's book was that Joseph was often left to himself to figure out how best to make things work. He didn't always get the details. He did his best and it worked, but it wasn't always pretty getting to that point. I think the same is true of current leadership (I saw a lot of this in the McKay bio). They lead and are inspired as the Lord sees fit, but they are often left to work things out on their own. I doesn't bother me that church leadership felt that the documents might have been legitimate at the time.

bluegoose · 12-21-2005, 07:18 PM

Busy day yesterday. I'm a bit late catching this topic.

Were the Adam-God theory and the location of the Garden of Eden mentioned? If not, I would propose they be added to the list, as I have spoken with several people who take issue with this, especially the Garden of Eden.

fuegote · 12-21-2005, 07:20 PM

what is their issue with the Garden of Eden?

bluegoose · 12-21-2005, 07:23 PM

Just the fact that it has been stated several times, by Brigham I believe, that the location of the Garden of Eden was in Jackson Co Missouri.

I don't think its a huge concern for most. Most people just shrug it off as "all right, whatever", but I've met some who have a difficult time accepting that little tidbit.

fuegote · 12-21-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegoose

Just the fact that it has been stated several times, by Brigham I believe, that the location of the Garden of Eden was in Jackson Co Missouri.

I don't think its a huge concern for most. Most people just shrug it off as "all right, whatever", but I've met some who have a difficult time accepting that little tidbit.

huh....that's odd. I'm still wondering why that would be difficult to comprehend that.

Indy Coug · 12-21-2005, 07:54 PM

Because it's an ocean and then some away from the Middle East.

12-21-2005, 07:20 PM	#27
fuegote Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 724	what is their issue with the Garden of Eden? __________________ http://www.cavaliersbrigade.com home of the greatest fans in MLS.

12-21-2005, 04:50 PM	#21
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	i would agree with steelblue.... we could even go more recent with an experience well documented.... ill play devils advocate on something....note im not comfortable doing this as it strikes me as odd the whole situation.... mark hoffman. how could a man with his purpose being that to deceive and bring down the church fool and dupe the inspired brethren including our current prophet? what have leaders of the church said about this experience?

12-21-2005, 06:24 PM	#22
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	By the way, in the "one case," there was still plenty of reason to doubt, but I didn't think any of us would want to go into it. Steelblue, I secretly suspect that you and I actually agree on all points; if my wording were better, we probably wouldn't be debating. What I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to say is that I suspect that if we had all true information and no false information available regarding these issues, they probably wouldn't be as problematic as they are. Given this weakness, these issues do not trump those based on better documentation, such as the Book of Mormon, for example.

12-21-2005, 06:50 PM	#23
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=jbms&id=202 I didn't read it, but the topic looks interesting.

12-21-2005, 07:18 PM	#26
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	Busy day yesterday. I'm a bit late catching this topic. Were the Adam-God theory and the location of the Garden of Eden mentioned? If not, I would propose they be added to the list, as I have spoken with several people who take issue with this, especially the Garden of Eden.

12-21-2005, 07:23 PM	#28
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	Just the fact that it has been stated several times, by Brigham I believe, that the location of the Garden of Eden was in Jackson Co Missouri. I don't think its a huge concern for most. Most people just shrug it off as "all right, whatever", but I've met some who have a difficult time accepting that little tidbit.

12-21-2005, 07:54 PM	#30
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Because it's an ocean and then some away from the Middle East.