Did you sign? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Anthesian · 10-09-2008, 03:50 PM

Our Petition to the Leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The Constitution of the United States of America assures us that no person or group’s religious views are allowed to be binding on the public. It is vital that members of our society be able to express themselves according to the dictates of their own conscience and work to forestall enactment of laws and amendments that would reverse this capacity for any segment of the population.

Support of policies that seek to force the morality of our belief system on others who believe differently goes contrary to core doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as outlined in the Articles of Faith: “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may,” and the Doctrine and Covenants: “We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government …” (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9). Our prophets, scriptures, and the history of our own people warn us of the destructive force that such actions can have. We are dismayed at the dilemma of choosing between our allegiance to leaders of the LDS Church and our own conscience on this matter.

We, the undersigned, have diverse views about the issue of same gender marriages but we stand united in the belief that each individual should have the civil right to marry the spouse of their choice and to have that union recognized by civil authorities. We affirm the LDS Church’s right to define doctrine and policy for its own members. However, we ask that the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cease their political organizing efforts and financial support of attempts to use the government to restrict the secular and religious rights of gay and lesbian individuals and publicly retract their request that members of the LDS Church support such measures.

il Padrino Ute · 10-09-2008, 03:52 PM

No.

Did you?

MikeWaters · 10-09-2008, 03:59 PM

I was talking to my brother last night, and he was saying the LDS church is so hypocritical given its history, etc.

So I say, "Is the Catholic Church hypocritical?"

He muttered something about the inquisition, but then he was stumped.

Sorry, I just can't help myself. I like poking holes.

I don't think I could sign that above statement, because I don't wholly agree with it. But yes, I do wish the church would have sat it out and let the members decide on this issue, just like they decide on a multitude of political issues, some with more overt moral implications, and some not.

exUte · 10-10-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I was talking to my brother last night, and he was saying the LDS church is so hypocritical given its history, etc.

So I say, "Is the Catholic Church hypocritical?"

He muttered something about the inquisition, but then he was stumped.

Sorry, I just can't help myself. I like poking holes.

I don't think I could sign that above statement, because I don't wholly agree with it. But yes, I do wish the church would have sat it out and let the members decide on this issue, just like they decide on a multitude of political issues, some with more overt moral implications, and some not.

will not be forced to conduct gay marriage at the cost of losing their tax exempt status. You firmly believe that your kids will not be taught that gay marriage is as normal as hetero marriage in K-12?

Those a direct questions that only require a yes or no. No pontificating. Just your opinion.

MikeWaters · 10-10-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exUte

will not be forced to conduct gay marriage at the cost of losing their tax exempt status. You firmly believe that your kids will not be taught that gay marriage is as normal as hetero marriage in K-12?

Those a direct questions that only require a yes or no. No pontificating. Just your opinion.

are kids taught that masturbation is normal in schools?

it was taught in my schools.

exUte · 10-10-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

are kids taught that masturbation is normal in schools?

it was taught in my schools.

Two simple questions and MW immediately goes to self stimulation. So self stimulation is comparable to sodomy? Interesting comparison.

Try it again one last time.

MikeWaters · 10-10-2008, 01:34 AM

Schools occasionally teach things I don't fully agree with. I'm ok with that.

If I wasn't, I would be one of the home-schooling freaks.

I'm not.

creekster · 10-10-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Schools occasionally teach things I don't fully agree with. I'm ok with that.

If I wasn't, I would be one of the home-schooling freaks.

I'm not.

You shouldnt' be so hard on homeshooling freaks. I know lots of them. I have even had them in my home for dinner. Have you? I'll bet you have never gone out of your way to invite a homeschooling freak into your house for dinner, have you? Have you ever even been to a home where schooling is going on? I bet you haven't done that either, have you? well, sir, until you can satisyf my little tests and prove your worthiness to discuss this issue, I refuse to acknowledge the basis for any opinion you might have against home schooling.

exUte · 10-10-2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Schools occasionally teach things I don't fully agree with. I'm ok with that.

If I wasn't, I would be one of the home-schooling freaks.

I'm not.

having to perform gay marriage or lose their tax exempt status. Thoughts.

MikeWaters · 10-10-2008, 01:44 AM

worse, I have been babysitting homeschooling freaks for 2.5 years because the church asked me to.

10-09-2008, 03:50 PM	#1
Anthesian Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Mesa, 2nd Utah County, AZ Posts: 77	Did you sign? Our Petition to the Leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The Constitution of the United States of America assures us that no person or group’s religious views are allowed to be binding on the public. It is vital that members of our society be able to express themselves according to the dictates of their own conscience and work to forestall enactment of laws and amendments that would reverse this capacity for any segment of the population. Support of policies that seek to force the morality of our belief system on others who believe differently goes contrary to core doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as outlined in the Articles of Faith: “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may,” and the Doctrine and Covenants: “We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government …” (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9). Our prophets, scriptures, and the history of our own people warn us of the destructive force that such actions can have. We are dismayed at the dilemma of choosing between our allegiance to leaders of the LDS Church and our own conscience on this matter. We, the undersigned, have diverse views about the issue of same gender marriages but we stand united in the belief that each individual should have the civil right to marry the spouse of their choice and to have that union recognized by civil authorities. We affirm the LDS Church’s right to define doctrine and policy for its own members. However, we ask that the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cease their political organizing efforts and financial support of attempts to use the government to restrict the secular and religious rights of gay and lesbian individuals and publicly retract their request that members of the LDS Church support such measures. __________________ Stepping onto a higher plane is quite real for everyone. It requires no force or effort or sacrifice. It merely involves little change of what our idea of normal is. -Deepak Chopra The woman caught in adultery deserves the stoning she didn't get. Jesus...why did you have to stick your nose where it didn't belong?

10-09-2008, 03:52 PM	#2
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	No. Did you? __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

10-09-2008, 03:59 PM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I was talking to my brother last night, and he was saying the LDS church is so hypocritical given its history, etc. So I say, "Is the Catholic Church hypocritical?" He muttered something about the inquisition, but then he was stumped. Sorry, I just can't help myself. I like poking holes. I don't think I could sign that above statement, because I don't wholly agree with it. But yes, I do wish the church would have sat it out and let the members decide on this issue, just like they decide on a multitude of political issues, some with more overt moral implications, and some not.

10-10-2008, 01:34 AM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Schools occasionally teach things I don't fully agree with. I'm ok with that. If I wasn't, I would be one of the home-schooling freaks. I'm not.

10-10-2008, 01:44 AM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	worse, I have been babysitting homeschooling freaks for 2.5 years because the church asked me to.