this statement, still published in Bible Dictionary...

[Tex]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

that's exactly my point. you're trying to establish the JST's revelatory authority using the same methods of textual criticism ("circumstantial evidence") that scholars use for Biblical criticism. We don't know how Joseph Smith did the "translation." We only know "probablilities," "likelihoods."

Again, this is exactly wrong. The revelatory authority of the JST is and always was established solely on the calling and authority of the prophet Joseph Smith.

We can debate into which of the four categories suggested by Matthews that a passage might fall (restoration of lost text, commentary, etc.) based on textual criticism, but its position as revelation is unimpeachable, based on the calling of the prophet who translated it.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

FWIW, we were talking about 1 corinth 15:29 in GD today, and I read the NRSV version as well as the oxford footnote. Two people asked to see my copy of the oxford annotated NRSV.

I'm preaching the anti-KJV gospel, and it's going well.

A good fellow well met.

My little post from the Translators Introduction to the 1611 KJV argues for the Bible to be in the common language of the people. The current situation with the King James-only crowd is ironic.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

True enough. For someone who admittedly posts things he doesn't believe for the purpose of getting a rise out of people, you should have a tighter reign on your emotions.

Where did I say that?

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Where did I say that?

You know how the search feature works, don't you?

Don't get lazy on me, Lebowski. I am not your mother.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

You know how the search feature works, don't you?

Don't get lazy on me, Lebowski. I am not your mother.

There you go hijacking my phrase again. Sadly, you still don't understand what it meant.

I am guessing you are referring to my post on CB where I said that well-crafted trolling can be entertaining. I also said that I did not consider myself to be a good CB troller. And trolling does not have to consist of stating things you don't believe.

But just to clear things up for you, I don't recall ever posting something that I don't believe. Especially in the religion forum.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

True enough. For someone who admittedly posts things he doesn't believe for the purpose of getting a rise out of people, you should have a tighter reign on your emotions.

Ironically, what bothers Lebowski most is that I actually believe the things I post.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

On my mission, in the English-speaking part, I don't ever recall running into someone that used the KJV.

Almost all were Catholic.

I think the only group who still uses the KJV is evangelicals over the age of 80 (besides us). Under 80 use the NIV.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

I think the only group who still uses the KJV is evangelicals over the age of 80 (besides us). Under 80 use the NIV.

I find it ironic that the KJ translators emphasized the need to read the Bible in common language, yet those supporters of the KJV want a distant, elevated language that is foreign to most English speakers.

I don't like the NIV as much as I like the NRSV, although the verse is plainer and not as poetic.

[MikeWaters]

Here is an example, at least in my mind, where the KJV is obtuse, and the NRSV is much morme clear. Hebrews 11:1 is one of the most quoted Biblical passages by Mormons, and I have to say I prefer the NRSV rendition 100x more than the KJV.


KJV

[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[3] Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


NRSV
11Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2Indeed, by faith* our ancestors received approval. 3By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.*