If you found out that the Golden Plates never existed, would you still be a Mormon? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SoonerCoug · 09-14-2007, 06:37 PM

I think this is an interesting question. How literal does Joseph Smith's story have to be for you to believe that the Church is true, or that being part of the Church is still worth it?

Indy Coug · 09-14-2007, 06:39 PM

Well, given the testimonies of the 3 witnesses, the 8 witnesses, Joseph Smith, and so forth, I would have a very hard time believing all of them lied.

Why? Do you have some nifty new evidence that calls the physical existence of the plates into question?

SoonerCoug · 09-14-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, given the testimonies of the 3 witnesses, the 8 witnesses, Joseph Smith, and so forth, I would have a very hard time believing all of them lied.

Why? Do you have some nifty new evidence that calls the physical existence of the plates into question?

It was a time of visions. My understanding is that Joseph Smith was helping others experience visions as well. He was the "Henry Ford" of revelation. He was helping people have the same kind of "wild trips" that he had.

I don't believe that the witnesses lied. I've never thought that at all. I don't believe Joseph Smith lied either. I'm just saying that I'm open to a huge variety of possibilities. That's why I posted the poll. I'm curious how open you might be to different possibilities.

myboynoah · 09-14-2007, 06:54 PM

I'm pretty tightly wound on this one. If they don't exist, then I'm out the door.

Conversely, if undeniable evidence of the existence of the Golden Plates came forth, would any of our non-Mormon friends become Mormons?

Indy Coug · 09-14-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eight Witnesses

That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken.

Well, if they had a tactile hallucination, then Joseph Smith was in the wrong business and needed to set up a mass distribution system for those mushrooms.

SoonerCoug · 09-14-2007, 07:13 PM

Crap, I left a grammar mistake in the first option. No edit.

myboynoah · 09-14-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Crap, I left a grammar mistake in the first option. No edit.

I just thought that was Okie talk.

Chapel-Hill-Coug · 09-14-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I think this is an interesting question. How literal does Joseph Smith's story have to be for you to believe that the Church is true, or that being part of the Church is still worth it?

That is a question I've wrestled with for years. For the past couple of those years, I've come to the conclusion that there were no literal plates (at least ones with ancient writing on them)--just my opinion, please don't think I'm trying to toss this in anyone's face or convert you. But the dilemma is that the LDS church of 2007 is SO, SO, SO multifaceted, so culturally livening, and socially stimulating for many people. These are no small perks and probably in most cases they extend beyond just one's spiritual life (even though I personally think the church has its negatives as well). There is more at stake, IMO, regarding whether to stay or leave than the literalness of said historical artifacts, if only because the LDS church is, imo, *completely different* in most ways than the group JS organized. Personally I feel absolutely no need to leave it, nor a great need to be intimately involved with the church. I like my neighbors though, which says something.

SoonerCoug · 09-14-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, if they had a tactile hallucination, then Joseph Smith was in the wrong business and needed to set up a mass distribution system for those mushrooms.

Actually, I think he realized that he was in the wrong business when he was arrested for working as a diviner to find water and buried Indian treasure.

Sleeping in EQ · 09-14-2007, 07:23 PM

I've posted about this many times...

View Poll Results: If you found out that the Golden Plates never existed, would you still be a Mormon?
Yes, the literalness of Joseph Smith's claims don't matter to me.	4	14.29%
Yes, but it would change the way I view the Church.	9	32.14%
No, I couldn't accept the Church as true in such a scenario.	10	35.71%
I'm not a Mormon.	5	17.86%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

09-14-2007, 06:37 PM	#1
SoonerCoug Formerly known as MudPhudCoug Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Land of desolation Posts: 2,548	If you found out that the Golden Plates never existed, would you still be a Mormon? I think this is an interesting question. How literal does Joseph Smith's story have to be for you to believe that the Church is true, or that being part of the Church is still worth it?

09-14-2007, 06:54 PM	#4
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	I'm pretty tightly wound on this one. If they don't exist, then I'm out the door. Conversely, if undeniable evidence of the existence of the Golden Plates came forth, would any of our non-Mormon friends become Mormons? __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

09-14-2007, 07:23 PM	#10
Sleeping in EQ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto Posts: 3,085	I've posted about this many times... __________________ "Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

09-14-2007, 06:39 PM	#2
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Well, given the testimonies of the 3 witnesses, the 8 witnesses, Joseph Smith, and so forth, I would have a very hard time believing all of them lied. Why? Do you have some nifty new evidence that calls the physical existence of the plates into question?

09-14-2007, 07:13 PM	#6
SoonerCoug Formerly known as MudPhudCoug Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Land of desolation Posts: 2,548	Crap, I left a grammar mistake in the first option. No edit.