If there is a Heavenly Mother, why does she play no role

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

why do you believe that it is right?

I never said I did.

But to say that any answer is flat out wrong when there really isn't any solid doctrine on the matter is wrong in and of itself, IMO.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by BYU71

That is not the Pavlovian answer, that is the answer I was taught as a kid and in Seminary.

My real reason is she doesn't need to be mentioned to have the real power.

I grew up when the Patriarchal order was in vogue. Not only in the church, but elsewhere too.

Imagine my wonder and amazement as I grew up and observed married people to find out the real power the men had in the church was in name only. If you don't think women have influenced how the church functions from the beginning, you are kidding yourself.

WOW was given because Emma was pissed off.

I actually agree. Women in any society have numerous informal conduits of power. In most societies the men get the ego stroking. Mormonism seeks to stroke the egos of women with the "if you want to do well in the Church for a man marry above yourself" or the "my wife is a priesthood widow" or the "the man called to be Bishop is the one with the most righteous wife who can handle/support him in this calling."

I do find this a little patronizing to women and creates the illusion that women are only successful if their husbands are viewed as successful. Some buy into it. For example my brother in law works a lot of our construction operations. He has yet to get a degree and this is an area in which he can excel. I think having an owner of the company who does the actual work actually benefits us, but that is another story. Regardless, since we are spread out so much it has required him to live for long periods of time in a camp trailer. This brought his wife no happiness and she whined frequently about his unfair treatment to her daddy, the company President. However, he was recently called into our Bishipric and given the fact that he is a salt of the earth human and one hell of a hard worker he is getting dumped on with many duties that IMO should be handled by the Bishop. He is spending long hours away from home. Now when she speaks of him being gone she is glowing. She puts a high value on that "he married above her" dogma and pacified by that. I bet my wife would be as well. I however am a cynic, and occassionally a vocal one so it is unlikely my wife will get such an opportunity. Personally, I think if any priesthood responsibility causes one's wife to become a "priesthood widow" and the children are deprived of crucial time with their parent, the father is putting too much emphasis on his calling. I don't believe that is of God and IMO must be inspired by desires for the praises of man as abandoning one's family is not in the best interests of the Kingdom of God.

But the mormon church is an organization and organizations need folks willing to give it their all so that the organization will function.

So in the end the men get the ego stroking and I think the real power lies with each individual. Power, IMO, is influence. There are opportunities to influence everywhere in the Church. There are even callings that women can aspire to that will give their egos some stroking. There are fewer opportunities to move beyond the local or stake level, that much is true. But I think that is because they are a lesser proportion of women aspiring to that stuff. Many I know are content being "priesthood widows" or in my wife's case very content with her clan.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I do find this a little patronizing to women and creates the illusion that women are only successful if their husbands are viewed as successful.

I've seen it differently. General authorities often state that they would be far lesser men if not for their wives. Women are our better halves, and I'm willing to bet most men in the church feel that way.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I've seen it differently. General authorities often state that they would be far lesser men if not for their wives. Women are our better halves, and I'm willing to bet most men in the church feel that way.

Men say that kind of crap for appeasement purposes only. It's throwing women a bone so they won't be nagged and so they can get more sex. You probably also think men are sincere when they tell women how much they like their shoes.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Men say that kind of crap for appeasement purposes only. It's throwing women a bone so they won't be nagged and so they can get more sex. You probably also think men are sincere when they tell women how much they like their shoes.

Nice blanket statement there.

Just because you're a male chauvinist doesn't mean we all are. I sincerely believe my wife has made me a much better man than I would be otherwise.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

in our lives?

What does this say to women in the church today?

Women here, do you have any opinions about this?

The answer is that Heavenly Father has more than one wife and we don't necessarily possess the same Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, so it's an attempt to cut down on the confusion.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I sincerely believe my wife has made me a much better man than I would be otherwise.

Yikes.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Nice blanket statement there.

Just because you're a male chauvinist doesn't mean we all are. I sincerely believe my wife has made me a much better man than I would be otherwise.

Shudder the thought.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I've seen it differently. General authorities often state that they would be far lesser men if not for their wives. Women are our better halves, and I'm willing to bet most men in the church feel that way.

I think that is patronizing. I think a relationship is at its best when we are equally yoked, so does Christ.

However, we want to appear humble and one way to do this is to be self-depreciating, but if we are self-depriciating while pointing out it is best to be equally yoked, we are insulting our wives. So it appears some use the better half talk so that the women feel better about themselves because we men suck.

I don't know how to crack the nut, but I think it is better to elevate the actual accomplishments of women above and beyond marrying me, a GA. In fact it seems to me that when actual Apostles speak they elevate the accomplishments of their wives based upon what they have done rather than by denigrating themselves and making their marriage to a successful man to be their significant accomplishment.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Shudder the thought.

How old are you, 10?

Give me a break.