LDS church chides Affirmation

[Tex]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

No.

If he does, he hasnt done a great job of explaining it to the Stake Presidents, who have, in turn, not done a great job explaining it to the Bishops.

If you are aware of his reason, please share here. I am all ears.

So, what's the motivation? Are we all just marching behind the prophet, who in turn is marching behind God, none us from bottom to top knowing why?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

So, what's the motivation? Are we all just marching behind the prophet, who in turn is marching behind God, none us from bottom to top knowing why?

I take it you don't have answer to the very question you asked?

Nice anus avatar, btw.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I agree that the anti's cannot articulate a coherent, logical reason for opposing Prop 8. We saw here yesterday the same old conjecturing....gay marriage may destroy us, it will cause our kids to become gay, etc...all baseless rhetoric that amounts to little more than scaremongering.

You're citing the crazy arguments that most reasonable people know aren't true, and that's a fairly easy straw-man to burn.

The most coherent argument I hear from the other side (my wife) is that marriage is a sacred union of two individuals necessarily connected with the also sacred power of procreation, and she would like to preserve that aspect of the definition in society. She's fully in support of giving civil unions every legal right that a marriage has, but the term "marriage" is important to her. I don't have a good answer to that, but generally fall back on my belief that the church needs to stay out of politics.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I take it you don't have answer to the very question you asked?

I do have an answer and have articulated my reasons for opposing gay marriage many, many times. Do a search.

Since you apparently believe there are no coherent reasons for such--right on up to the prophet--I'm curious to hear you explain why we as a church are involved in this. Do you really think Pres Monson looks at a copy of Prop 8 on his desk and says, "I know not, save the Lord commanded me"?

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

However, I do respect the fact that some folks are simply opposed because this is what the Prophet has asked us all to do. There is honor to be found in humble obedience. While I personally feel like sitting this one out, I do not condemn those who obey out of love for the Prophet. It is when they start busting out junk studies of heterosexual marrige in Norway that my spidey senses start tingling.

You don't have to "condemn" anyone. The Old Testament-like command to "Do your duty!" and the obliging response (Higbee, 1857) will reap the whirlwind all on its own.

The real "duty" to be done is the development of one's own moral decision making. Maybe all concerned will learn something this time around.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

I do have an answer and have articulated my reasons for opposing gay marriage many, many times. Do a search.

Since you apparently believe there are no coherent reasons for such--right on up to the prophet--I'm curious to hear you explain why we as a church are involved in this. Do you really think Pres Monson looks at a copy of Prop 8 on his desk and says, "I know not, save the Lord commanded me"?

I don't know what President Monson's reasons are (I wish the church would do a better job of explaining them), but, ironically, your reasons DO appear to be "I know not, save President Monson has commanded me."

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

You're citing the crazy arguments that most reasonable people know aren't true, and that's a fairly easy straw-man to burn.

The most coherent argument I hear from the other side (my wife) is that marriage is a sacred union of two individuals necessarily connected with the also sacred power of procreation, and she would like to preserve that aspect of the definition in society. She's fully in support of giving civil unions every legal right that a marriage has, but the term "marriage" is important to her. I don't have a good answer to that, but generally fall back on my belief that the church needs to stay out of politics.

My intent is not to use that as a strawman. It is simply to point out that those are basically the same excuses being given over and over.

Your wife's position is fine, but again, it isnt terribly persuasive in terms of explaining why gay marriage should be disallowed. There is no articulated reason as to why it would be important to preserve that specific definition. I am not attacking your wife....my wife has a similar viewpoint (although perhaps not to the extent as your wife, not sure...). I am just reiterating that ultimately, most reasons given have been pretty feeble.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

I do have an answer and have articulated my reasons for opposing gay marriage many, many times. Do a search.

Since you apparently believe there are no coherent reasons for such--right on up to the prophet--I'm curious to hear you explain why we as a church are involved in this. Do you really think Pres Monson looks at a copy of Prop 8 on his desk and says, "I know not, save the Lord commanded me"?

I do have an answer and have articulated my reasons for not opposing gay marriage many, many times. Do a search.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I do have an answer and have articulated my reasons for not opposing gay marriage many, many times. Do a search.

Huh? Did you not understand my question?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

You don't have to "condemn" anyone. The Old Testament-like command to "Do your duty!" and the obliging response (Higbee, 1857) will reap the whirlwind all on its own.

The real "duty" to be done is the development of one's own moral decision making. Maybe all concerned will learn something this time around.

I agree, but I feel that it is unfair to deny those who have pondered this one and sincerely feel that gay marriage is wrong.

I disagree with them, but I am not ready to say that they have not quite developed their own sense of moral decision making, simply because they have come to a different conclusion than I. Not trying to imply that you are suggesting this, either. Just pointing out that faithful obedience to the Prophet does not necessarily equate to an inability/unwillingness to make one's own decisions.