Morning after pill - Page 3 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

BarbaraGordon · 08-20-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOhio

Oklahoma must be reeeeeeeaaaallllyyyy boring.

only in the nine months a year with no football.

BYU71 · 08-20-2008, 02:08 PM

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Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Is there anything more entertaining than watching a bunch of affluent old men split hairs over this stuff?

The only thing I can think of is women who think they can talk football with men as peers.

MikeWaters · 08-20-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

I know many people who are anti abortion feel this way. That is one I haven't been able to grasp.

I realize the affect on the friends and relatives of the woman who conceives consentually or by rape, but what is the difference to the fetus.

If it is wrong to end the fetus of a consentual transaction, why is it not wrong to end it from rape.

For those who take the stand in one case it is wrong and in the other it is not, give me the justification of such. It can't be because it is taking a human life.

you're right. The church is effectively pro-choice/pro-abortion, though they discourage it. Why should its members be any more principled on the issue than the church? I guess it depends on your view of morality.

It wouldn't surprise me if many men on this site would have no problem driving their daughters to the abortion clinic.

BYU71 · 08-20-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you're right. The church is effectively pro-choice/pro-abortion, though they discourage it. Why should its members be any more principled on the issue than the church? I guess it depends on your view of morality.

It wouldn't surprise me if many men on this site would have no problem driving their daughters to the abortion clinic.

I don't get the pro-choice/pro-abortion claim you make. There just has to be a reason that goes beyond where life begins. I haven't heard it articulated.

I myself would never drive a daughter or grandaughter to an abortion clinic. My own reasons have to do with it lessening the value of life and the importance of chastity. On the other hand, I don't view someone who has an abortion as a leper.
I also have never believed in anti birth control even when the church called it evil.

RedHeadGal · 08-20-2008, 02:43 PM

If you're okay with birth control, I don't get why you're not okay with MAP. What's the difference btw that and in IUD? Or why is suspending ovulation through the pill much different. And yes, it even begins to extend to early abortions, too.

But what's really rich is how all you men are trying to tell hypothetical daughters what to do. See, you don't get to do that. Tough.

BYU71 · 08-20-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

If you're okay with birth control, I don't get why you're not okay with MAP. What's the difference btw that and in IUD? Or why is suspending ovulation through the pill much different. And yes, it even begins to extend to early abortions, too.

But what's really rich is how all you men are trying to tell hypothetical daughters what to do. See, you don't get to do that. Tough.

Perhaps you can enlighten me here. I often here that because old white men can't experience something, their opinion on the matter is either irrelevant or kept to themselves.

Do you feel that way in all matters. Since women don't experience the same sexual drive as men, do you think woman should have any opinion on men committing adultery?

Levin · 08-20-2008, 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Rape on the other hand is a whole different ballgame.

I agree with this; consensual life creation versus forced life creation -- the intention and purpose matter.

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Originally Posted by BlueHair

Their error in judgement was to not respect their daughter's privacy. Why would they share this information, especially if they know your extremist views?

Surely, you aren't serious about not giving your daughter the MAP. What makes you think that giving up a child would do nothing to her soul? She could feel that torment for the rest of her life.

The violation of her privacy was a horrendous thing to do. I wish I didn't know about this.

I don't think that having a baby and then giving it up for adoption is detrimental to a woman's soul. In fact, I think it is a selfless act of incredible magnitude. It can be heartbreaking for the girl, but ultimately she chose to give the baby a life and a family a baby. Some things that are heartbreaking only impact our soul for good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

Nobody who does in vitro fertilization argues that every single embryo that is created has a right to be born. A zygote is not a child.

It's this type of strict compartmentalization that will get us in trouble, I think. It's a type of formalism that ignores the reality of intention and purpose. Intentions matter. In vitro fertilization is designed to create and give life. The result of the procedure is that some embryos do not survive. The MAP is designed to destroy life. The result is a zygote is destroyed. The results may be the same, and focusing just on the results, you may find some moral equivalency. But when the purpose and the intention is brought into the equation, all moral equivalency is lost and the moral scales are tipped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It wouldn't surprise me if many men on this site would have no problem driving their daughters to the abortion clinic.

If not for an abortion, at least for a chemical abortion with the MAP.

What do you think it does to a daughter to see a parent encourage and enable the destruction of life so easily and quickly?

Levin · 08-20-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

But what's really rich is how all you men are trying to tell hypothetical daughters what to do. See, you don't get to do that. Tough.

It's even richer for you to say we can't prepare for the day in the event that it comes. And it's even more rich for you to imply that we can't have these types of conversations with our daughters who do exist and before a day like that does come.

My wife says one of the most effective parental talks she ever had with her dad as a teenager was when they discussed pregnancy and what he would do if she ever got pregnant. The choice would no longer be hers: she'd carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. She didn't think she would have the strength to give up a baby, and so it was one motivation for her to remain abstinent.

Clark Addison · 08-20-2008, 03:01 PM

I'm not an expert on any of this, and my opinion goes back and forth.

IUDs have been mentioned a couple of times. My (possibly incorrect) impression is that the MAP works similarly to an IUD, an egg may be fertilized, but not implanted.

So, those of you who opposethe MAP, do you also oppose IUDs? Or am I missing an important distinction.

BarbaraGordon · 08-20-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

The only thing I can think of is women who think they can talk football with men as peers.

yeah, but what kind of respectable girl would do that kind of thing?

08-20-2008, 02:43 PM	#25
RedHeadGal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: DC Posts: 995	If you're okay with birth control, I don't get why you're not okay with MAP. What's the difference btw that and in IUD? Or why is suspending ovulation through the pill much different. And yes, it even begins to extend to early abortions, too. But what's really rich is how all you men are trying to tell hypothetical daughters what to do. See, you don't get to do that. Tough.

08-20-2008, 03:01 PM	#29
Clark Addison Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 638	I'm not an expert on any of this, and my opinion goes back and forth. IUDs have been mentioned a couple of times. My (possibly incorrect) impression is that the MAP works similarly to an IUD, an egg may be fertilized, but not implanted. So, those of you who opposethe MAP, do you also oppose IUDs? Or am I missing an important distinction.