Morning after pill

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Perhaps you can enlighten me here. I often here that because old white men can't experience something, their opinion on the matter is either irrelevant or kept to themselves.

Do you feel that way in all matters. Since women don't experience the same sexual drive as men, do you think woman should have any opinion on men committing adultery?

That's not what I'm saying. Have all the opinions you want. Express them as you please. But the choice about what to do regarding a potential pregnancy lies with the potentially pregnant. It's so individual, which is why these kinds of line-drawing discussions are so useless. Even as a woman, I wouldn't presume to understand another individual's position on this one or be inclined to tell them what to do.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by Levin

It's even richer for you to say we can't prepare for the day in the event that it comes. And it's even more rich for you to imply that we can't have these types of conversations with our daughters who do exist and before a day like that does come.

My wife says one of the most effective parental talks she ever had with her dad as a teenager was when they discussed pregnancy and what he would do if she ever got pregnant. The choice would no longer be hers: she'd carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. She didn't think she would have the strength to give up a baby, and so it was one motivation for her to remain abstinent.

um, I don't follow how he would be able to do that. or why you think he should.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Levin

It's this type of strict compartmentalization that will get us in trouble, I think. It's a type of formalism that ignores the reality of intention and purpose. Intentions matter. In vitro fertilization is designed to create and give life. The result of the procedure is that some embryos do not survive. The MAP is designed to destroy life. The result is a zygote is destroyed. The results may be the same, and focusing just on the results, you may find some moral equivalency. But when the purpose and the intention is brought into the equation, all moral equivalency is lost and the moral scales are tipped.

I agree. We had to have some living zygotes destroyed and used for research in our first in-vitro pregnancy and I never felt any remorse or pain of conscience. But I am an advocate for medical science picking up for God with the ladyfolk who don't give their significant others a lil' summin summin to grab onto. I understand that on unfortunate occasions some of our Cistern have been shortchanged in that vital gyrating area. Hence, perhaps my conscience is not the litmus test you all would like to use. I do think that landpoke is with me and would be a welcome home teaching comp.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

um, I don't follow how he would be able to do that. or why you think he should.

You make no sense at all.

A father and mother should counsel their daughter what to do after having unprotected sex that could result in pregnancy. And if the daughter is under 18, it should be more than just "counsel."

And these moral line drawing discussions are a waste b/c it is all so individualistic (your response to BYU71). WTH? There goes any critical thought for you on any meaningful topic.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

That's not what I'm saying. Have all the opinions you want. Express them as you please. But the choice about what to do regarding a potential pregnancy lies with the potentially pregnant. It's so individual, which is why these kinds of line-drawing discussions are so useless. Even as a woman, I wouldn't presume to understand another individual's position on this one or be inclined to tell them what to do.

I agree with you there, it is the womans choice. I would say in the case of a married couple, the man should have some say, but that debate is for another day. I guess I missed where anyone was suggesting the woman be forced into not having an abortion.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

That's not what I'm saying. Have all the opinions you want. Express them as you please. But the choice about what to do regarding a potential pregnancy lies with the potentially pregnant. It's so individual, which is why these kinds of line-drawing discussions are so useless. Even as a woman, I wouldn't presume to understand another individual's position on this one or be inclined to tell them what to do.

that's the whole crux of this. there are some here who would tell their daughter what to do, and it would be instructions to take the MAP.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

that's the whole crux of this. there are some here who would tell their daughter what to do, and it would be instructions to take the MAP.

Would you mind naming those people so I could be aware of them in the future.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

that's the whole crux of this. there are some here who would tell their daughter what to do, and it would be instructions to take the MAP.

Some would tell their daughters to take MAP, and some would tell their daughter to bear the consequences no matter what.

In reality, I wager a larger portion would educate their daughters about the consequences probably shading the information or encouraging their daughters to pursue one course or another.

The ethical hair splitting is not very pragmatic. If I had a daughter who encountered that situation and she desired my opinion, I would provide the comfort she needed, inform her of her options, make them feel safe while bringing out the ethical consequences.

But in short, if a person is unintentionally pregnant, at what point does she feel comfortable terminating the pregnancy and at what point does she not. That is a personal decision and it seems odd for men to judge a woman who must make that decision, most times, alone. I can see why a girl who gets has unprotected sex on a one night stand would like to ensure no pregnancy results. The pregnancy is unplanned and undesired, and medical science can now make non-invasive.

Saying some get to live with the consequences and should carry the zygote to term whereas some will not become impregnated through mere fortuitous circumstances seems a bit sterile and unfair. But a woman chooses to allow the process to proceed to pregnancy, then so be it as well.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Some would tell their daughters to take MAP, and some would tell their daughter to bear the consequences no matter what.

In reality, I wager a larger portion would educate their daughters about the consequences probably shading the information or encouraging their daughters to pursue one course or another.

The ethical hair splitting is not very pragmatic. If I had a daughter who encountered that situation and she desired my opinion, I would provide the comfort she needed, inform her of her options, make them feel safe while bringing out the ethical consequences.

But in short, if a person is unintentionally pregnant, at what point does she feel comfortable terminating the pregnancy and at what point does she not. That is a personal decision and it seems odd for men to judge a woman who must make that decision, most times, alone. I can see why a girl who gets has unprotected sex on a one night stand would like to ensure no pregnancy results. The pregnancy is unplanned and undesired, and medical science can now make non-invasive.

Saying some get to live with the consequences and should carry the zygote to term whereas some will not become impregnated through mere fortuitous circumstances seems a bit sterile and unfair. But a woman chooses to allow the process to proceed to pregnancy, then so be it as well.

This doesn't make much sense. A whole lot of waffling, and much different from your original response.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Levin

My niece got drunk and had unprotected sex with a guy she met at a bar while in Europe. My brother and his wife encouraged her to take the morning after pill, which she did. She was barely 18 at the time.

I think my brother and his wife were wrong. I'm fine with birth control, but not the morning after pill. There is a difference between preventing life and ending it. The scientific niceties of what a two-day old zygote is does not concern me. I would have told my daughter that one of the consequences of her actions was the possibility that she could get pregnant. The sexual act is the means by which life is created, and if she performs that act irresponsibly, it could have life altering consequences.

Small choices can have cataclysmic consequences. Life is hard. We have to accept the consequences of our actions. Blunting them with the convenience of modern technology is moral robbery in my opinion.

And my attitude does not come from a perspective of punishment. The damage to her soul by taking the morning-after pill, and the fundamental altering of her worldview that occurred when she did so, are much worse then carrying a baby to term and then giving it up for adoption. Morning sickness, the heartache of giving the baby up, yes. But such pains do nothing to her soul. The quick fix for heedless sex, the ending of life, does much to her soul.

Regular birth control pills many times do the same thing as the morning after pill. I don't have a problem with it. Why force a woman to have a child just because of a mistake she made during a night of drinking. The world already has too many mothers that are not prepared or ready to rear children. The morning after pill = birth control pill to me. I don't see the big deal.