Excommunication

[BYU71]

I don't like making conroversial statements, however I think excommunications are handled much like HC violations at BYU.

The criteria for whether one gets ex'd has to do with 1) amount of contrition, 2) visibility of person being disciplined, 3) PR considerations.

The sin itself is secondary.

[ERCougar]

By the way, I think there's almost never a reason to excommunicate somone. The two exceptions I can think of is: 1) No desire for repentance or change and 2) public profile. I'm even doubtful on 2) as I think there are much worse things that can happen to the church's reputation than someone making a mistake and attempting to correct it.

[MikeWaters]

does the church actually look better, when it kicks out it's members for sin?

I'm saying, if you are looking for good PR, it is good PR to excommunicate someone for an affair?

I think it probably has more to do with sending a signal to the other members about what it takes to remain a member.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

does the church actually look better, when it kicks out it's members for sin?

I'm saying, if you are looking for good PR, it is good PR to excommunicate someone for an affair?

I think it probably has more to do with sending a signal to the other members about what it takes to remain a member.

Agreed. I don't think it helps the Church's image at all to excommunicate someone who made a mistake.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by BYUHoopster

Without going into details I have recently been made aware that a current Bishop and former member of my Stake Presidency has had ongoing affairs over many years. I assume there is no question that he will be exed.

My question is how long does the process take? Assuming he met with the Stake President today will he be excommunicated by the end of the week or will it take longer. Further, because of his status in the church will they be announcing this over the pulpit?

I am also inclined to believe that based upon his position that the excommunication is a foregone conclusion. That said, there will still need to be a court with the SP and the High Counsel and time for him to bring any witnesses he may wish to in his defense, as well as time for any of those who have been harmed to testify if they wish to. The logistics may take some time.

I would hope that something like this can be dealt with in private as much as possible and without the need for an announcement over the pulpit. Unfortunately this sort of secret is is rarely well kept. I would assume that most of the stake will learn of it, if not the details of it, pretty quickly.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

does the church actually look better, when it kicks out it's members for sin?

I'm saying, if you are looking for good PR, it is good PR to excommunicate someone for an affair?

I think it probably has more to do with sending a signal to the other members about what it takes to remain a member.

When it comes to these things, PR I am talking about is the PR within the membership of the church.

Back to BYU, do you really think anyone cares or or thinks positively when BYU announces they have kicked a kid out because he had sex, consentual sex. Maybe some Islamic mullah somewhere applauds, but other than that the PR is for membership consumption.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by BYU71

When it comes to these things, PR I am talking about is the PR within the membership of the church.

Back to BYU, do you really think anyone cares or or thinks positively when BYU announces they have kicked a kid out because he had sex, consentual sex. Maybe some Islamic mullah somewhere applauds, but other than that the PR is for membership consumption.

If the only thing keeping your pants on is your membership in the church, your'e not gonna make it too long.

Still doesn't make sense.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

If the only thing keeping your pants on is your membership in the church, your'e not gonna make it too long.

Still doesn't make sense.

I know it is due to my low IQ, but your comments went right over my head.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I know it is due to my low IQ, but your comments went right over my head.

I'm wondering what you mean by "church PR". Does it mean that by "punishing" members in the church by excommunication, we'll discourage others from doing the same thing? I don't think that works.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

I'm wondering what you mean by "church PR". Does it mean that by "punishing" members in the church by excommunication, we'll discourage others from doing the same thing? I don't think that works.

I would probably agree with you, but it is what those in charge think works. I would say 90% of LDS people are into forgiveness. Watch the sinners who recognize their sin and ask for forgiveness. They are almost rock stars at church. Why, I don't know.

Try not going to church for 6 months and then show up. See if you ever have had so many people come up to you with a huge smile and say they really glad to see you.

Most of this I believe is very sincere, but some of it is programmed into us.

On the other hand, those in charge have a dual role. They want members to feel they can sin and come back and be forgiven, they actually want them too. On the other hand they don't want members thinking at decision time that there aren't serious consequences for bad behavior.

When these issues become highly public, that is when the PR part comes in. Anyone knows PR and image plays a big role in what happens with the HC and discipline.