How many true churches are there?

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Is there truly only one?

A few scriptures to begin the discussion:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the ahead to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same acare one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the bestbgifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Is the body of Christ the manifestation of his love, and do we all, all faith's alike fit within the body? Do we need to be part of the LDS church to compose the body of Christ?

Furthermore:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

This is where Adam/God makes sense to me, it allows all to drink in Christ in this life, seek out the truth, aka Jesus, and one day abide in his glory and compassion.

Adam/God is a false doctrine and yes there is only one true church.

[SeattleUte]

The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.
--Archilochus (7th-century b.c.e.)

Some of us are foxes, others are hedgehogs.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.
--Archilochus (7th-century b.c.e.)

Some of us are foxes, others are hedgehogs.

Great quote friend.

And some of us are moles who know nothing at all.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Is there truly only one?

A few scriptures to begin the discussion:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the ahead to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same acare one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the bestbgifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Is the body of Christ the manifestation of his love, and do we all, all faith's alike fit within the body? Do we need to be part of the LDS church to compose the body of Christ?

Furthermore:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

This is where Adam/God makes sense to me, it allows all to drink in Christ in this life, seek out the truth, aka Jesus, and one day abide in his glory and compassion.

The more you talk, the more puzzling and offensive it is to me that you enter the temple. At least Seattle and others are man enough to just be out in the open about not believing. You on the other hand consantly state your unbelief and then go to the temple and do things that to some of us are sacred when you don't even believe in basic concepts like the true church.

I'm all for a big tent, but I have no idea why you continue your association with the church. I for one am bored with your immature and tortured takes on the gospel. Grow up. That is all.

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

The more you talk, the more puzzling and offensive it is to me that you enter the temple. At least Seattle and others are man enough to just about in the open about not believing. You on the other hand consantly state your unbelief and then go to the temple and do things that to some of us are sacred when you don't even believe in basic concepts like the true church.

I'm all for a big tent, but I have no idea why you continue your association with the church. I for one am bored with your immature and tortured takes on the gospel. Grow up. That is all.

Well said. Perhaps he'll stop the whole "Church" thing a few months after he is married? I wonder if she knows what she is getting into...

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

The more you talk, the more puzzling and offensive it is to me that you enter the temple. At least Seattle and others are man enough to just about in the open about not believing. You on the other hand consantly state your unbelief and then go to the temple and do things that to some of us are sacred when you don't even believe in basic concepts like the true church.

I'm all for a big tent, but I have no idea why you continue your association with the church. I for one am bored with your immature and tortured takes on the gospel. Grow up. That is all.

What I can't figure out is if fus is trying to look intelligent by posing these questions, or just expressing his doubts.

I agree that some of his thoughts here are puzzling, for a lifelong member. "Authority" is a basic concept which most children can articulate. Exercising such authority is not tantamount to authority. If one does not believe the Church has authority, then one does not believe.

I'm okay with somebody not believing, but his mode of questioning is peculiar. Just be frank and state, I don't believe in God. I just believe in love, or whatever the emotion du jour is.

If life is as Seattle posts, mortals of short duration following a combination of myths created for the masses to be comforted and there is no hereafter, what's the harm in believing? Nobody will be changed any how?

If there is truth, i.e., knowledge of thigns as they once were, as they are now and as they will become, then it behooves us to find truth to act upon it. We can use our imperfect faculties to divine what truth we can and let the rest play out.

[MikeWaters]

all churches are equal. but some churches are more equal than others.

[livecoug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

The more you talk, the more puzzling and offensive it is to me that you enter the temple. At least Seattle and others are man enough to just about in the open about not believing. You on the other hand consantly state your unbelief and then go to the temple and do things that to some of us are sacred when you don't even believe in basic concepts like the true church.

I'm all for a big tent, but I have no idea why you continue your association with the church. I for one am bored with your immature and tortured takes on the gospel. Grow up. That is all.

gotta agree.. sorry fus... you really sound like you are going the way of robin and seattle... if that's what you want and it makes you happy to doubt the church and leave it some day, than that is fine, but it does seem as if you are taking lightly the church and temple..

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

The more you talk, the more puzzling and offensive it is to me that you enter the temple. At least Seattle and others are man enough to just about in the open about not believing. You on the other hand consantly state your unbelief and then go to the temple and do things that to some of us are sacred when you don't even believe in basic concepts like the true church.

I'm all for a big tent, but I have no idea why you continue your association with the church. I for one am bored with your immature and tortured takes on the gospel. Grow up. That is all.

Fus, I have been at awe too at what you have been posting as of late. I am beginning to believe that your Bishop was perhaps inspired when he told you to stay mainstream.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by livecoug

gotta agree.. sorry fus... you really sound like you are going the way of robin and seattle... if that's what you want and it makes you happy to doubt the church and leave it some day, than that is fine, but it does seem as if you are taking lightly the church and temple..

The problem with doubt is that it doesn't tackle and deplete a testimony all at once. If it did, people could avoid making choices that they might one day come to regret. The process is more akin to a tire with a slow leak. Or to mix metaphors, like a genie in a tire with a slow leak. In my own case I drove on that tire a lot farther than I should have, and once the genie was out of the tire (really bad mixed metaphors )there is no putting it back.

As for fus, I suggest he drive on that tire as long as it feels right. Who knows... there might be enough pressure to last a lifetime of driving. But if he finds himself stranded somewhere in the middle of Nevada with a flat, I would make this simple observation-- your life will be full of happiness no matter where your doubt lands you, so long as you strive to cultivate a kind heart and charity for all. Be honest with your wife, and let her know how you feel at all times. Your marriage is going to be a journey of sorts, and the person that you are at the end of that journey will not be the same person you see in the mirror today. As long as you communicate totally, the full extent of your ideas and feelings, you will be on the journey together. If you find that you grow apart, it will be in full light and understanding of who you both are. But if your experience is anything like my own, (and I think it would be) you will find that such open communication kindles a deeper love and respect.

And don't worry so much about things. If you believe what the church says, this lifetime is a blip in existence, with an eternity stretching out behind us and an eternity stretching out before us. Concentrate on what brings you and your wife happiness in this lifetime, and rest assured that if God is anything like what Mormons describe, if you cultivate a kind heart with charity for all, in the many eternities that stretch out before us, you will find yourself no more the poorer for entertaining some doubt in this lifetime.

On the other hand, if God is a crank who intends to hold your doubts against you for the eternities, then He doesn't deserve your worship.

Cheers,

R.