Americans views of Mormons Gallup poll

[MikeWaters]

I didn't know Jordan Farmar was Jew-ish.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...177805,00.html

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Look, SU, I like you. But I think you are off base here. The argument you are giving above is essentially the opposite of what you argued on the last page. Last page, you were arguing that Mormons and Jews SHOULD be judged differently (because their levels of accomplishment are not the same). That opens a pandoras box that I don't think you want to mess with. Here, you are saying that Jews should not be judged differently because "they control the media" (one of the accomplishments you had just noted set them apart).

Jews have been persecuted far more than Mormons. I get it. Their history is tragic, though it is also one that has served as the foundation for many of my beliefs. I realize that. But your argument of viewing them differently (read "superior" in the context of your argument) is exactly the basis of every argument utilized against the Jews.

You've completely missed my point. You're a very bright fellow and I think I expressed myself reasonably well so I think you didn't read my posts very closely, or you deliberately tried to confuse my message.

First, I've made no value judgment for myself re Jews v. Mormons. I criticized those who jumped to the conclusion that poll numbers indicating the populace has a more favorable opinion of Jews than Mormons must have been motivated by anti-Mormon bigotry and fear of being called anti-Semites. The poll question is a fair one. It's the kind of poll the Mormon church might want to run in order to reflect on how it might make itself more saleable. I simply pointed out some facts to demonstrate that people can have a rational basis for being more favorably impressed with Jews than Mormons. It isn't necessarily because of Jewish public relations, as especially Waters suggested. But I didn't make an argument that Jews are more estimable than Mormons. By the way, criticizing a religion doesn't autmatically mean you're "anti-" or "bigoted against" that religion.

Second, I most empatically did NOT express the view that Jews control the media. I was restating some statements made here that seem to echo accusations made against Jews through the ages that do suggest bigotry. My point was that is what some people here seem to think. Jews obviously have some influence over the media. They don't control it and my overriding point is that favorable popular perceptions of Jews are not necessarily not on the merits.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

There are real tangible reasons why people may think more highly of Judaism than Mormonism. Einstein was a Jew. A Jew invented the polio vaccine. Jews invented monotheism, gave us the Bible, Old Testament and New, public finance. Their culture is 3,000 years old. Jews have given us multiple Nobel Prize winners in literature, some of history's greatest composers and artists. In contrast, people here keep saying how they hate Mormon art and literature. Satruday's Warrior. In fact it is garbage pretty much without exception. Jews dominate the faculties at the world's finest universities, corporate board rooms, investment banks, movie studios, publishing houses, etc., etc., etc. I could go on and on and on. They in large part gave root to the culture that feeds you and nourishes you intellectually and spiritually and entertains you, and some of you here don't even know it!

Yes, there are countless reasons why somebody might rationally express a more favorable opinion of Jews than Mormons and not do it for fear of being called a bigot or because of bigotry.

A Mormon invented tv.

And again, when I mentioned Jews, Mormons and Muslims, I was talking about religious groups and I think you know that but didn't want to acknowledge it. And the fact of that matter, is that it's not ok to attack Jews as a religion, but it is ok to attack Mormons and Muslims. I think you know that as well and apparently agree.

[SeattleUte]

Now I see the source of Cali Coug's confusion. Waters' mangling of my post in his signature. Very funny. Cali Coug, when you say you read a book do you mean the snippets on the back of the book?

[SeattleUte]

Moreover, CaliCoug, I haven't talked about persecution in this thread except briefly in reply to Waters' sniffling about anti-Mormonism and perceived double standards.

[Archaea]

Are we debating for the purposes of debating, or does anybody really disagree with SU?

There are legitimate reasons why outsiders might view Mormons differently than Jews, given the length of cultural awareness of Jews as opposed to Mormons. The reasons don't appear to be tied to patent anti-Mormon bigotry, by which I mean, intentionally dislike simply by virtue of association with the culture and religion regardless of personal merits.

It seems simplistic to attribute all negative perceptions of our people and its culture to a real hard and fast bigotry. Some of it is a lack of awareness, a lack of familiarity and in some part a lack of power by Mormons. Mormons unlike other groups have not traditionally used their political power to advance Mormonism. Mormons tend to promote their own selves, their businesses, and often are not as tribal as Jews, AAs or some Latins have been. Although a persecution complex exists amongs LDS, I don't believe we have translated it in the same form or tried to act upon it in the same manner as AAs, or Jews. As a result, the public perception of Mormons might not be quite as powerful and people might not view a negative light on us as PC as the more vocal groups.