The Jazz suck.

[cougjunkie]

stupid refs.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

stupid refs.

Uh, being sarcastic in this way in a thread where no one has mentioned the refs at all is kinda dumb.

[Detroitdad]

Stupid inabiity to run the pick and roll for about 5 minutes in the 4th quarter. Is that better?

On a serious note, when will someone really, really hammer Ginobili and his obnoxious flopping? And when will someone say "you know Tony, I don't believe you can hit five threes in a game so I am not going to come outside 18 feet to guard you." I know, I know, easier said than done.

[Surfah]

Rocky hit the nail on the head with Sloan. He's the reason the Jazz will never win a championship. For that matter I am glad that LHM keeps giving him extensions.

[cougjunkie]

According to Ylife if the Jazz would play Fesenko they are a 70 win team. Fesenko must be one of the best players of all time.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by surfah33

Rocky hit the nail on the head with Sloan. He's the reason the Jazz will never win a championship. For that matter I am glad that LHM keeps giving him extensions.

The other reason the Jazz have never won a championship.....they have always lacked a player that could take over and dominate at the end of the game when needed.

Stockton was one of the greatest PGs of all time, but you dont go to Stockton every time down the stretch with 3 mins left....unless you wanted him to just pass the ball to someone on each possession. Stockton created....he did not take over and dominate.

Malone, during his 2 MVP seasons ("MVP," I should say) was a workhorse. Malone is arguably the greatest PF of all time. However, he was not realiable to put his team on his back and will them to victory in the closing stretch of games--at least not consistently or when it mattered most.

All the great championship teams had someone who was known for taking over and dominating....even selfishly if need be.....MJ, Magic (or Worthy, actually), Bird, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, etc....

The Jazz have never had that player, which is why they will always fall short in the post-season, where you need a combination of solid D, the ability to exploit matchups, and someone who is going to take the ball at the end and win the game himself.

[TheSizzle36]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Stockton was one of the greatest PGs of all time, but you dont go to Stockton every time down the stretch with 3 mins left....unless you wanted him to just pass the ball to someone on each possession. Stockton created....he did not take over and dominate.

This is my biggest issue with Stockton. He was the type of player who could take over a game, but if anything he was too unselfish. Take the 1997 Game 6 against the Rockets as an example. He was clearly the best player on the floor in a game that featured at least 5 Hall of Famers (Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Barkley and Olajuwon... six if you count Greg Ostertag). He absolutely took that game over as he wasn't going to lose. It's a little long, but worth the watch.



Now, I believe that had Stockton had this attitude more often the Jazz might have won a championship or two (though I don't know if it would have been in 97 or 98 against Jordan... he was just too dominant).

That is one thing that I do like about Deron Williams in comparison to Stockton. Williams is a pass-first point guard, but when push comes to shove, he's not afraid to put the team on his back and find a way to win. Maybe it's my memory that is a bit off, but it seems that he does that more frequently that Stock ever did. I am not saying that Williams is better than Stockton... just that when it comes down to it, Williams' personality is one that he is more willing to carry the team than Stock was.

[JohnnyLingo]

I watched that game live, but I'd forgotten Stockton had scored the Jazz's last nine points.

I think you're right, Sizzle. Had Stock been more willing to take over at the end of games, that Jazz team might have won a championship. His offensive game was better than you'd expect, considering how few shots he took.

Ostertag was so frustrating. He'd have these incredible 16-point, 15-rebound games sometimes, and then do little or nothing the rest of the season.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

This is my biggest issue with Stockton. He was the type of player who could take over a game, but if anything he was too unselfish. Take the 1997 Game 6 against the Rockets as an example. He was clearly the best player on the floor in a game that featured at least 5 Hall of Famers (Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Barkley and Olajuwon... six if you count Greg Ostertag). He absolutely took that game over as he wasn't going to lose. It's a little long, but worth the watch.

Now, I believe that had Stockton had this attitude more often the Jazz might have won a championship or two (though I don't know if it would have been in 97 or 98 against Jordan... he was just too dominant).

That is one thing that I do like about Deron Williams in comparison to Stockton. Williams is a pass-first point guard, but when push comes to shove, he's not afraid to put the team on his back and find a way to win. Maybe it's my memory that is a bit off, but it seems that he does that more frequently that Stock ever did. I am not saying that Williams is better than Stockton... just that when it comes down to it, Williams' personality is one that he is more willing to carry the team than Stock was.

I remember watching that game. John Stockton sends the Utah Jazz to the NBA Finals! Classic NBA quote.

In reality, though, he never did this enough. If you notice, he won from the outside. In crunch time, you need a player that can slash or shoot. Smaller point guards usually don't fit that mold.

D-Will has more of a scorer's mentality. If Stockton had D-Will's scorer's mentality, the Jazz might not be hanging an "All-Time Assists Leader" banner, but they might, just might, be hanging a championship banner. And in the end, which matters most?

The Stockton/Malone era has to go down as one of sports' greatest enigmas. Can you name another team that had 2 of the greatest players at their position (each of them Top 5 all time at their respective positions) playing alongside each other for their entire careers and with the same team, yet never won a championship? Add into the enigma that in the process, one of the tandem wins 2 MVPs and the other becomes the All-Time assists leader. It is really bizarre.

[TheSizzle36]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I remember watching that game. John Stockton sends the Utah Jazz to the NBA Finals! Classic NBA quote.

In reality, though, he never did this enough. If you notice, he won from the outside. In crunch time, you need a player that can slash or shoot. Smaller point guards usually don't fit that mold.

3 of his 9 points came from the outside. The other 6 came from Stockton getting to the lane. My point is, Stock COULD do that, for whatever reason, he didn't enough. I love Stockton, but if I have one complaint about him, it would have been that.

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

D-Will has more of a scorer's mentality. If Stockton had D-Will's scorer's mentality, the Jazz might not be hanging an "All-Time Assists Leader" banner, but they might, just might, be hanging a championship banner. And in the end, which matters most?

It is an interesting discussion. I think, it would have been satisfying watching Stock and Malone earn a championship the right way, more so than having an Assists and Steals leader banner in the ESA. However, I think I would have preferred watching a team play consistently well over the course of 20 years and always have a chance to win it all, than to have a team mortgage their future for a one-time chance. It's frustrating, but those years were fun to watch as that team played so well together. I'd like to discuss further but I need to leave...

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The Stockton/Malone era has to go down as one of sports' greatest enigmas. Can you name another team that had 2 of the greatest players at their position (each of them Top 5 all time at their respective positions) playing alongside each other for their entire careers and with the same team, yet never won a championship? Add into the enigma that in the process, one of the tandem wins 2 MVPs and the other becomes the All-Time assists leader. It is really bizarre.

Lakers-Celtics, Michael Jordan. Enough Said.