An interesting Interview

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Was this recent or was it from some years ago? Only asking because the final question about "Do you feel worthy..." no longer has the "in every way" part. "In every way" was taken out a few years back.

I've asked the "Are you honest..." question in TR interviews before. The people that give the "thoughtful nuanced answer" are a dime a dozen. After asking the question a hundred times, you get tired of hearing the thoughtful nuance. The question is "Are you". It's a yes or no question. It doesn't make one look more thoughtful to say "As best I can" - as if that person was the first person to ever think about what it really means to be honest. Everyone has to think about it. Everyone has to use their nuanced thought process to arrive at the determination that they are or aren't honest in their dealings. Answering "I try to be" or "as best I can" adds no value - it buys you nothing and contributes nothing. In my opinion, the "I try to be" type of answer is just a cop out.

Well you may tire of people carefully considering the answers and then replying back thoughtfully, but damnit all it's once every two years a person supposedly is giving an accounting of his commitment to his covenants.

I don't get that attitude. If it's supposed to be a pro-forma, just have us fill it out online. People are being earnest and trying. Because you want a check the box answer seems way out of line.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Well you may tire of people carefully considering the answers and then replying back thoughtfully, but damnit all it's once every two years a person supposedly is giving an accounting of his commitment to his covenants.

I don't get that attitude. If it's supposed to be a pro-forma, just have us fill it out online. People are being earnest and trying. Because you want a check the box answer seems way out of line.

It's not that I don't want people to carefully consider the answers. It's that they don't need to bother to tell the interviewer that they've thought about it. their thought process. EVERYONE has the same thought process. EVERYONE has to consider what it means to be honest. EVERYONE has to come to a conclusion about whether they are honest or not. "I try to be" or "As best I can" is not coming to a conclusion.

I want people to consider it. I want people to ponder it. I want people to be thoughtful. I want people to determine whether they are or aren't honest. The interviewer can't make that determination. People have to make that determination. "I try to be" or "As best I can" seems like it is expressly avoiding making that determination.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

It's not that I don't want people to carefully consider the answers. It's that they don't need to bother to tell the interviewer that they've thought about it. their thought process. EVERYONE has the same thought process. EVERYONE has to consider what it means to be honest. EVERYONE has to come to a conclusion about whether they are honest or not. "I try to be" or "As best I can" is not coming to a conclusion.

I want people to consider it. I want people to ponder it. I want people to be thoughtful. I want people to determine whether they are or aren't honest. The interviewer can't make that determination. People have to make that determination. "I try to be" or "As best I can" seems like it is expressly avoiding making that determination.

I appreciate your point of view, but I think your opinion is skewed by the fact that you do (or did) this all the time. For me, it only happens only 24 months. I am not avoiding making the determination, as I expressly do that in my answer the last question.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

It's not that I don't want people to carefully consider the answers. It's that they don't need to bother to tell the interviewer that they've thought about it. their thought process. EVERYONE has the same thought process. EVERYONE has to consider what it means to be honest. EVERYONE has to come to a conclusion about whether they are honest or not. "I try to be" or "As best I can" is not coming to a conclusion.

I want people to consider it. I want people to ponder it. I want people to be thoughtful. I want people to determine whether they are or aren't honest. The interviewer can't make that determination. People have to make that determination. "I try to be" or "As best I can" seems like it is expressly avoiding making that determination.

So if a person looks back at his life and remembers a time, where he may not have been completely honest, he's supposed to answer No and be disqualified?

You're expecting too much. What about those times where one wrestles "what should I disclose, what should I not disclose, was that hones?" I've had those times, haven't you?

So the answer then is, well most of the time I am, but there are times where I'm not certain.

It seems what you're saying is you're too busy to work the interview, you want that person to have already wrestled with it, and not waste your busy time, because you're too important the pesky member shouldn't be sitting there without the form pre-filled out.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

I appreciate your point of view, but I think your opinion is skewed by the fact that you do (or did) this all the time. For me, it only happens only 24 months. I am not avoiding making the determination, as I expressly do that in my answer the last question.

I agree with this. The interviewer can be a bit bothered because it has become routine and you want another interview out of the office, so you can get home to wife and family. But the interviewee, unless it's a former bishop or stake president, doesn't find it rote.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Archaea

So a friend consulted me, and I'll save what I stated, regarding this interesting interview:



And no Rocky this was not me, and you might be surprised what my response was.

If I had been the participant in that interview and he withheld my recommend, I would talk to his file leader that evening. I would continue up the chain until I got my recommend or had exhausted the chain. If I exhausted the chain...I don't know what I would do...I would be pissed.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by K-dog

If I had been the participant in that interview and he withheld my recommend, I would talk to his file leader that evening. I would continue up the chain until I got my recommend or had exhausted the chain. If I exhausted the chain...I don't know what I would do...I would be pissed.

My advice was simple.

What is it you want to achieve?

Do you wish to fight it? You can appeal and the stake president will probably agree with you.

Or, the counselor is a dipshit in one sense, but he's probably a good member with a narrow view, so you just give him what he wants if you want your recommend.

Who fights a dipshit? Another dipshit. He laughed and agreed.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

It's not that I don't want people to carefully consider the answers. It's that they don't need to bother to tell the interviewer that they've thought about it. their thought process. EVERYONE has the same thought process. EVERYONE has to consider what it means to be honest. EVERYONE has to come to a conclusion about whether they are honest or not. "I try to be" or "As best I can" is not coming to a conclusion.

I want people to consider it. I want people to ponder it. I want people to be thoughtful. I want people to determine whether they are or aren't honest. The interviewer can't make that determination. People have to make that determination. "I try to be" or "As best I can" seems like it is expressly avoiding making that determination.

Fact: It is difficult for people to make a determination regarding themselves that is accurate.

Fact: The nature of the question (concerning honesty) forces the person to try and be intensely honest.

Fact: If intensely honest, we are too hard on ourselves and don't apply the atonement to the determination.

Fact: Members of the local leadership should be particularly loathe to reject a temple recommend if the applicant says they feel worthy.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Archaea

My advice was simple.

What is it you want to achieve?

Do you wish to fight it? You can appeal and the stake president will probably agree with you.

Or, the counselor is a dipshit in one sense, but he's probably a good member with a narrow view, so you just give him what he wants if you want your recommend.

Who fights a dipshit? Another dipshit. He laughed and agreed.

I knew a SP who wouldn't grant a recommend to those who drank cola drinks. No one challenged him because they agreed with you. Someone finally took it up with his file leader. His file leader took it to SLC. SLC met with the SP. The SP started granting recommends to cola drinkers. Sometimes you fight with a dipshit because he deserves the shit kicked out of him so he can be just a regular dip.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

It's not that I don't want people to carefully consider the answers. It's that they don't need to bother to tell the interviewer that they've thought about it. their thought process. EVERYONE has the same thought process. EVERYONE has to consider what it means to be honest. EVERYONE has to come to a conclusion about whether they are honest or not. "I try to be" or "As best I can" is not coming to a conclusion.

I want people to consider it. I want people to ponder it. I want people to be thoughtful. I want people to determine whether they are or aren't honest. The interviewer can't make that determination. People have to make that determination. "I try to be" or "As best I can" seems like it is expressly avoiding making that determination.

In which case, if someone thoughtfully answers "as best I can", you may think to yourself "what a jerk", but I suspect you would nod and move on to the next question. The fact that the MOTSP busted his balls over that answer means that you and he don't think alike.