General questions for the board,

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So I find your continued snide, condescending attitude very boring.

Your worst sin, Lingo, is that you bore people. I suspect, in person, you are the type that is eminently forgettable. If you can't add anything here in this forum, it's a safe bet you can't add anything in any venue.

Who knew that an evisceration could be so poetic?

[All-American]

The tone of this entire thread is surprising, if not disheartening.

I would like to think that the majority of the participants of this board are not out to make themselves appear superior to others here, nor is anybody out to subvert or destroy anybody else's convictions. I really believe that, for the most part, we're here to learn. I, personally, have profited greatly from the discussions I've read on this board, and can honestly say that my own testimony has been strengthened by the examination of all that I have come across, whether it is flattering to the image of the church and its leaders or not.

Furthermore, what I've learned here has helped strengthen not only my own convictions, but it has helped me discuss these same issues (with which members are going to be confronted, whether they like it or not) and aid others in understanding these issues. Just yesterday, I had a long conversation with a member of the church whose friend confronted her with polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, and several other issues which demanded answers. To shrug off these issues and ignore them is to marginalize and dismiss the legitimate concerns of sincere seekers of truth, and as such, is tantamount to neglecting our responsabilities of perfecting the saints and preaching the gospel.

Truth can be found in sources far more widespread than we will ever have the opportunity to scour. To close off any source of truth is self deprivation. Even so, one would be wise to remember that some issues are subordinate to others. For example, issues of polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, the mountain meadows massacre, and a hundred and one other mostly negative topics are all subordinate to the question of whether or not Joseph Smith was a prophet. The danger of picking up more and more wisdom is letting what we don't know upstage what we do. That takes quite a bit of maturity as a learner, but that should mean it is something we aspire to, rather than shun.

"Et cognoscetis veritatem, et veritas liberabit vos."

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by hoyacoug

Malign a prophet???

An example would be fantastic for such an outrageous statement.

You want examples?

Really all you or anyone else needs to do is read most of your posts criticizing the prophet for his and the apostles decisions on some of their stances that help to form and guide HIS church. You do it frequently. Of that there is absoluetly ZERO question.

Decisions mind you that come directly from and in behalf of Jesus Christ himself. Shocking I know.

Nevertheless, I'm sure you'll continue in your form of Pharisaic rhetoric to continue justifying it.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Faith

Rocky, I feel like you are making some assumptions. Do you really think that all people who disagree with the LDS prophet don't care what Jesus Christ thinks? Could these people possibly be feeling llike thay are receiving revelation from the Holy Ghost that is contradictory to the prophet?

Remember, most people who are LDS have been taught to value personal revelation and communication with God through the Holy Ghost. As a missionary, I remember trying to specifically help investigators recognize and identify the spirit. It is ultimately through our communication with the Holy Ghost that we gain our testimonies about anything in the gospel, including our testimonies about the prophet being called of God.

Is it possible for the Holy Ghost to tell us something contradictory from the prophet? (If Nephi hadn't listened to the Holy Ghost, he would NEVER had killed Laban in the BofM, because murdering is clearly taught by the prophets to be against God's will.) If one cannot count on the Holy Ghost to know truth, then the entire foundation of personal knowledge of the gospel is unstable. I believe that I am ultimately accountable to God for acting for or against what I feel that I am being told by the Holy Ghost, as I actively seek his guidance.

What does one do when one really feels that the Holy Ghost is telling them something contrary to the Prophet's words? Do they ignore the promptings, keep praying, repenting, and hoping that Satan is trying to deceive them? What if they still feel that the Holy Ghost is telling them somethig contrary to the prophet's words? Do they use reason and evaluate how important of an issue it is for them to even wrestle with? Do they wonder if God is testing their obedience to a prophet of God? I personally don't believe that God would give such a ridiculous test. When the early saints practiced polygamy, I don't think that they could have without personal peace given from the Holy Ghost. I cannot live without peace in my heart, and I do not have peace in my heart when I feel that I am going against the promptings of the holy ghost.

I'm not making assumptions at all. They have a long history of criticizing the Prophet, the church, it's leaders and many things contained therein.

Should the church or some it's leaders be free from question or concern? Of course not. That has never been my stance. There are things myself I would like to see done a bit differently, but guess what? That's life.

God tested his prophets and his people often. Daily in fact. That continues to this day.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Who knew that an evisceration could be so poetic?

It wasn't 'poetic.' It was articulate, cutting and unnecessarily mean.

Mike's cutting remark can serve no greater purpose than could be brought about by patience and kindness.

I hope somewhere deep inside, the good Mike Waters, the one who shows incredible patience to inner-city kids by taking them on camping trips, will realize that we are all children of one sort or another, and let patience and kindness be his guide.

[Faith]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I'm not making assumptions at all. They have a long history of criticizing the Prophet, the church, it's leaders and many things contained therein.

Should the church or some it's leaders be free from question or concern? Of course not. That has never been my stance. There are things myself I would like to see done a bit differently, but guess what? That's life.

God tested his prophets and his people often. Daily in fact. That continues to this day.

Don't you see the assumption that you are making? Just because these individuals may "have a long history of criticizing the Prophet, the church, it's leaders and many things contained therein" does not necessarily mean that they are not seeking truth, and not seeking understanding of Jesus Christ's perspective, nor does it mean that they are not following the promptings of the spirit in their individual lives.

[JohnnyLingo]

Not to be critical or anything, but your husband is one of the people Rocky is referring to.

Don't you think you may be a little biased?

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Faith

Don't you see the assumption that you are making? Just because these individuals may "have a long history of criticizing the Prophet, the church, it's leaders and many things contained therein" does not necessarily mean that they are not seeking truth, and not seeking understanding of Jesus Christ's perspective, nor does it mean that they are not following the promptings of the spirit in their individual lives.

I have not said they aren't seeking truth. That is not an assumption I have made. In fact, I believe that they really do believe and feel they way they do and that's WHY they are seeking what they perceive to be truth.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Not to be critical or anything, but your husband is one of the people Rocky is referring to.

Don't you think you may be a little biased?

Thanks Johnny, but don't put words in my mouth.

Mike, while having a bit of rebellious tone to him, like many of us do, is not one who I put into that cateogry.

Curious? Yes. Full of questions and concerns? Yes.

Mike and I several months ago during Cougarguard's infancy had it out via boardmails on Cougarboard. An exchange that I personally very much regretted and one that we both apologized for and since then I honestly have nothing but the utmost respect for Mike. He and I don't always agree, but I tend to feel Mike is much more conservative than Hoya, Robin, NS..etc.

[JohnnyLingo]

Thanks Johnny, but don't put words in my mouth.

Faith isn't Mike's wife.