Kobe and the Lakers

[Surfah]

Odom killed them tonight. What on earth was he thinking taking the ball to the rack with 15 seconds left on the shot clock with 22 seconds left in the game and a 4 point lead? What an idiot. He must be smoking the weed again.

Kobe is amazing. He is the MVP as far as my biased opinion goes. I am sick of Barkley and others spouting off about him taking too many shots. Tonights game was proof enough that Kobe should take 30 shots a game. I mean Luke Walton. What the hell happened to his shot? He air-balled a wide open 15 footer. It's like he's sabotaging his trade status so the Lakers will have to keep him or cut him.

[Rickomatic]

I watched the Laker / Jazz game when Kobe was suspended and was surprised how poorly they (the Lakers) played. It was like their hearts had been turned off. If the only way that team can play is with Kobe in there, then he truly is their MVP.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's amazing. I turned the TV off when the Lakers went up by five with about 30 seconds left. I can't believe they lost.

[JohnnyLingo]

Reason they went into Overtime instead of winning is Odom.

Reason they lost in overtime is Bryant.

From the Daily Dime:

Originally Posted by The Daily Dime

Up to the end of regulation -- in other words, until Odom's fateful errors -- Kobe was playing at an unbelievable level. He had scored 46 points, including 12 in the last 5:43, and had made all 13 of his free throws, giving him a Lakers-record 48 straight FTs made.

But playing under the influence of the frustration of seeing the Lakers' lead slip away, Bryant seemed to find a new gear: call it Gatling Gun mode, because while the Kings were taking the lead, he quickly fired up three extremely difficult shots -- including two long 3s -- that had little chance of going in.

His body language said, we're winning or losing this game on my terms, like it or not. He took six of the Lakers' first seven shots in OT, making only two. Basically, he shot the Lakers right out of the game.

And that's a major reason I dislike Kobe.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ilydime-060120

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Reason they went into Overtime instead of winning is Odom.

Reason they lost in overtime is Bryant.

From the Daily Dime:

And that's a major reason I dislike Kobe.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ilydime-060120

Johnny you carefully omitted the part from that article with the Kobe/Jordan comparison.

Also, why hate a player who has the gusto to take a team on his back? Doesn't make much sense to me. The kid had just scored, as your reference pointed out, 12 points in the last 6 minutes of the 4th. He doesn't even touch the ball on the last 2 Laker possessions. Of course he's going to control the shots in OT. And the Kings jumped out to a quick 5 point lead in OT. Kobe had to shoot to give his team a chance. At this point Mihm and Odom had fouled out so who the hell else is Kobe supposed to defer to.

The bottom line is Odom made two huge mistakes. He drives the lane with 15 seconds left on the shot clock when the Kings were resigned to losing and weren't going to foul and picks up a charging foul. Running out the clock is so elementary. Then he doesn't give Kobe the final shot and instead hucks up a poor 3 pointer.

The best part about the recaps of the Kings/Lakers game were the comments and praise of Francisco Garcia's defense on Kobe. Kobe dropped 51 on the kid. How's that good defense? One reporter remarked that Francisco kept Kobe to a huge night instead of a historic night. Truly laughable.

[JohnnyLingo]

Anyone who seriously considers Kobe Bryant to be on the same level as Michael Jordan is out of their mind. I refuse to even discuss that point.

Yes, Odom messed up. So what does Kobe do? He throws a hissy fit and decides he's not passing ever again. Effectively loses the game for his team. A good leader wouldn't do that.

I don't rag on Kobe for his game... he can score at will, and his assists have improved a lot since the beginning of the year. But his personality is what makes him so unlikeable.

[Surfah]

The fact of the matter is that they are on the same level. In fact, the level at which Kobe is playing at right now has only been done by two other players in the last 30 years. Guess who the other two are? That's right MJ and Kobe, when he went on a similar rampage. So, really Kobe has done it twice to MJ's one.

I am not saying that Kobe is better than MJ. But to say that the two aren't comparable at this point in their careers is ridiculous. But then again I don't even think MJ was the greatest player ever.

Also, I find it amusing that so many people laud MJ for his character and personality and cast stones at Kobe for his. It's no secret that MJ was an adulterer and had several other character flaws.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by surfah33

The fact of the matter is that they are on the same level. In fact, the level at which Kobe is playing at right now has only been done by two other players in the last 30 years. Guess who the other two are? That's right MJ and Kobe, when he went on a similar rampage. So, really Kobe has done it twice to MJ's one.

I am not saying that Kobe is better than MJ. But to say that the two aren't comparable at this point in their careers is ridiculous. But then again I don't even think MJ was the greatest player ever.

Also, I find it amusing that so many people laud MJ for his character and personality and cast stones at Kobe for his. It's no secret that MJ was an adulterer and had several other character flaws.

No, they are not on the same level. Never have been and never will be.

Why, you ask?

Because Jordan made his teammates better players. Kobe doesn't. MJ took the game over in order to get the win. Kobe takes the game over in order to pad his stats. MJ was smart enough to know that as good as he was, he still needed help from his teammates to get the rings. Kobe decided that he ws the reason he has his rings and ran the better player out of town.

Is Kobe a talented basketball player? Of course he is. He has to be to be in the NBA. But he is nowhere near the same level as Michael Jordan and never will be.

And we won't get into the reasons Kobe should be in prison. Sure, MJ had his indescretions, but none of his were of a forced sexual nature. Even off court, Kobe is not on the same level as Michael Jordan.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

No, they are not on the same level. Never have been and never will be.

Why, you ask?

Because Jordan made his teammates better players. Kobe doesn't. MJ took the game over in order to get the win. Kobe takes the game over in order to pad his stats. MJ was smart enough to know that as good as he was, he still needed help from his teammates to get the rings. Kobe decided that he ws the reason he has his rings and ran the better player out of town.

Is Kobe a talented basketball player? Of course he is. He has to be to be in the NBA. But he is nowhere near the same level as Michael Jordan and never will be.

And we won't get into the reasons Kobe should be in prison. Sure, MJ had his indescretions, but none of his were of a forced sexual nature. Even off court, Kobe is not on the same level as Michael Jordan.

Jordan couldn't make this Lakers team any better. People forget that Jordan shared several of his successful seasons with some great players including a top 50 all-time player in Pippen and one of the best rebounders and defenders in history who had already won rings before helping Michael win a handful more in Rodman. Did Jordan make the Wizards any better? No. That team sucked. And how did MJ make his teammates better? By averaging not even one more assist per game his career than Kobe has? And lest you forget, Kobe is 27 and has 3 rings. MJ's 6 came after 27. Kobe is still young and has a ton to learn.

MJ was spectacular. But he had no rival. The stage was his alone and because of that the legend had evolved before the rings came. He was that good, but at the same time the NBA needed someone to replace Magic and Bird, even Isaiah. The hype machine rolled and MJ lived up to it. And upon the pedestal of greatest ever he has since sat. He was no different on the court than Kobe. MJ shook his head in disgust at teammates, berrated them on the sidelines and in timeouts, and demanded the ball and won games on his terms more often than not. He deferred to nobody. So tell me are they that different?

Kobe didn't run anyone out of LA. Shaq was forced out because Jerry Buss' offer to make him the highest paid player in the NBA was not good enough. It was money not personality conflicts. Shaq called Buss out at a practice and Buss refused to renegotiate after that point. The rift with Kobe became a convenient excuse. Besides Buss has said repeatedly that he decided to go with Kobe over Shaq because of Shaq's age and health concerns. I believe that Shaq hasn't played more than 60 games a season the past 2-3 years.

I thought charges were dropped. If I'm not mistaken, Kobe was only accused of sexual assault, not convicted. And the real reason that the charges were dropped was not because of the public nature of the case and the emotional trauma inflicted on the girl (although I imagine that it weighed heavily) it's because she would have lost the case, and lost badly.

So hate Kobe because you hate him, but he is more than talented. He is one of the greats to play this game.

[SoCalCoug]

The same people complaining about Kobe not making his teammates better were probably the same people complaining in 1989 that Jordan would never be as good a player as Magic Johnson because he didn't make his teammates better.

It wasn't until later in his career (i.e., after his first retirement) that Jordan really learned to rely on his teammates. Before that, it was Michael and the Jordanaires.

And I agree with surfah - I listen to L.A. talk radio all the time, to guys who are on the "in" with the Lakers - Shaq was as much or more at fault than Kobe for the trade.

Finally, to say Kobe should be in prison is a little myopic. The charges against him fell apart because they had no merit. At this point, I don't think anyone close to the situation has any doubt that the girl made up the assault story. Yes, he cheated on his wife - but that shouldn't set him apart from the rest of the NBA as a particularly bad guy.

People (especially Jazz fans) hated Jordan when he was playing.