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View Poll Results: If you found out that the Golden Plates never existed, would you still be a Mormon? | |||
Yes, the literalness of Joseph Smith's claims don't matter to me. | 4 | 14.29% | |
Yes, but it would change the way I view the Church. | 9 | 32.14% | |
No, I couldn't accept the Church as true in such a scenario. | 10 | 35.71% | |
I'm not a Mormon. | 5 | 17.86% | |
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll |
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09-14-2007, 07:59 PM | #41 | |
Formerly known as MudPhudCoug
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land of desolation
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
This is an awful analogy, but it's a memorable one, so I've got to use it. Did Andrea Yates lie when she said the devil told her to kill her kids? |
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09-14-2007, 08:00 PM | #42 | |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
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09-14-2007, 08:01 PM | #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,596
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I'm a little late to the game on this one, but I cannot imagine how the JS story could square with there being no plates. Kinda seems pivotal to the whole thing.
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
09-14-2007, 08:01 PM | #44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!!
Posts: 4,530
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Quote:
This may well be how it is, but still very arbitrary, and contrary to the teachings of the Book of Mormon.
__________________
Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith. |
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09-14-2007, 08:02 PM | #45 |
Formerly known as MudPhudCoug
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land of desolation
Posts: 2,548
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I think this is a fair way of looking at things.
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09-14-2007, 08:04 PM | #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between Iraq and a hard place
Posts: 7,569
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There's a lot more mental gymnastics required to hold on to the simultaneous belief that the plates never physically existed while the church is still true than there is to believe that the plates were real, the Book of Mormon is true and that the Jaredites were contemporary with wooly mammoths.
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09-14-2007, 08:04 PM | #47 |
Formerly known as MudPhudCoug
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land of desolation
Posts: 2,548
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If there is one thing I learned on my mission, it's that when you bring the Church to a nation/city where the Church has never existed before, approximately 100% of the converts have either severe mental illness or ulterior motives. We had people bearing their testimonies about their suicide attempts every single Sunday. It was scary.
Incidentally, my first Mormon ancestor joined the Church in 1830, because his girlfriend wouldn't marry him unless he converted. Last edited by SoonerCoug; 09-14-2007 at 08:06 PM. |
09-14-2007, 08:10 PM | #48 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 216
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True, I think there are two separate things being debated: Did Joseph have and use physical plates? and Were there plates buried in Cumorah in the 5th century? Potentially, different questions, of course.
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09-14-2007, 08:11 PM | #49 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!!
Posts: 4,530
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Quote:
From whence Clayton got his information/interpretation/recollection of what happened, we do not know. True, there was some buzz about the K plates at the time, but nothing came of them. No translation, no new scripture, nothing. No evidence that JS even spent much time on them. They were eventually returned to those that "found" them.
__________________
Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith. |
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09-14-2007, 08:12 PM | #50 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Valencia CA
Posts: 1,384
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interesting
Quote:
Are you assuming that Joseph was hallucinating and he was a crazy person and that just happened to write an inspiring religious text? Are you assuming that he was able to convince 11 others to hallucinate with him? Are you assuming that Joseph continued to have this daily hallucination when he thought he was translating from plates that did not literally exist? If it was just a vision of the plates, why testify to the world that it was not simply a vision? |
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