Has Peak Mormonism already occurred? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 09-10-2015, 03:21 PM

The answer is "no". Because international growth will occur. Particularly in Africa, and eventually I think in China.

But the answer regarding America is less clear. It may be the case the Mormonism in the US has already peaked. What does that mean? I don't know. What is the cause? Multifactorial. Some internal causes, some external causes. Is it something to mourn or be upset about? I don't know. Is it a condemnation of the church and its members? I don't know. I doubt it.

There are certainly people in the church that have access to vast amounts of data. And have a much more clear answer to this question. But those data are held close to the vest. We know about baptisms and ward and stake numbers, but that's about it. Other numbers are being followed, but we don't know what they are.

If there is a problem, what is being done about it? Can we look to changes the church is putting in to make some judgments? Change in missionary age. Change in missionary teaching program. Changes in the teaching manuals for the YM. Some very limited movement to increasing the role of women in the church. Some limited movement to being more open about church history. Some signs of softening on the anti-gay rhetoric and policies. Recent focus on sabbath observance.

What am I missing?

ute4ever · 09-13-2015, 03:55 AM

I read a blurb from Nibley that ever since Roe v. Wade legalized murder, society has deteriorated at a faster rate than ever before. Despite the wickedness of man, from secret combinations to the so-called evil intent to establish a new world order (it was Ezra Taft Benson who recommended that everyone read None Dare Call It Conspiracy), The Lord has continued to call prophets, missionaries, and every person He needed, and protected and inspired them, countering every evil move with His great purposes.

But like you said, it may have peaked. For every solid new baptism, how many are straying? For every steadfast member who has put on the whole armor of God, how many murmur and criticize and actually make things worse? In his BYU devotional last week, President Worthen pointed out that Laman and Lemuel were probably active members of the church, but instead of making a positive contribution, they sat back, observed, complained, and probably turned people away from the gospel due to their poor example.

In Boyd K. Packer's talk to the all-church coordinating counsel earlier this year, he said, " there are three areas where members of the church, influenced by social and political unrest, are being caught up and led away... The dangers I speak of come from the gay – lesbian movement, the feminist movement, and the ever-present challenge from the so called scholars or intellectuals."

What do you think Waters, have we finally crossed the threshold where the five virgins with no oil are doing more harm than the good from the five virgins with oil? Are we on the verge of the seven years of tribulation finally commencing?

MikeWaters · 09-13-2015, 05:49 AM

I don't know where we are headed. But rallying the church against gays is not going to be a productive enterprise IMO.

09-10-2015, 03:21 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Has Peak Mormonism already occurred? The answer is "no". Because international growth will occur. Particularly in Africa, and eventually I think in China. But the answer regarding America is less clear. It may be the case the Mormonism in the US has already peaked. What does that mean? I don't know. What is the cause? Multifactorial. Some internal causes, some external causes. Is it something to mourn or be upset about? I don't know. Is it a condemnation of the church and its members? I don't know. I doubt it. There are certainly people in the church that have access to vast amounts of data. And have a much more clear answer to this question. But those data are held close to the vest. We know about baptisms and ward and stake numbers, but that's about it. Other numbers are being followed, but we don't know what they are. If there is a problem, what is being done about it? Can we look to changes the church is putting in to make some judgments? Change in missionary age. Change in missionary teaching program. Changes in the teaching manuals for the YM. Some very limited movement to increasing the role of women in the church. Some limited movement to being more open about church history. Some signs of softening on the anti-gay rhetoric and policies. Recent focus on sabbath observance. What am I missing?

09-13-2015, 03:55 AM	#2
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	I read a blurb from Nibley that ever since Roe v. Wade legalized murder, society has deteriorated at a faster rate than ever before. Despite the wickedness of man, from secret combinations to the so-called evil intent to establish a new world order (it was Ezra Taft Benson who recommended that everyone read None Dare Call It Conspiracy), The Lord has continued to call prophets, missionaries, and every person He needed, and protected and inspired them, countering every evil move with His great purposes. But like you said, it may have peaked. For every solid new baptism, how many are straying? For every steadfast member who has put on the whole armor of God, how many murmur and criticize and actually make things worse? In his BYU devotional last week, President Worthen pointed out that Laman and Lemuel were probably active members of the church, but instead of making a positive contribution, they sat back, observed, complained, and probably turned people away from the gospel due to their poor example. In Boyd K. Packer's talk to the all-church coordinating counsel earlier this year, he said, " there are three areas where members of the church, influenced by social and political unrest, are being caught up and led away... The dangers I speak of come from the gay – lesbian movement, the feminist movement, and the ever-present challenge from the so called scholars or intellectuals." What do you think Waters, have we finally crossed the threshold where the five virgins with no oil are doing more harm than the good from the five virgins with oil? Are we on the verge of the seven years of tribulation finally commencing?

09-13-2015, 05:49 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I don't know where we are headed. But rallying the church against gays is not going to be a productive enterprise IMO.