Law of consecration

[il Padrino Ute]

of the difference between socialism and the law of consecration. Well done, Gotanapper.

My explanation has always been along the lines that the law of consecration is of God and socialism is of government. of course, I also like to throw in a few shots at liberals, Sweden, the English department at Marist and 80's hair bands as well, but yours is much better.

[All-American]

Good stuff, Goat.

Socialism and the United Order are NOT twins. Says David O. McKay:

" Communism and socialism, closely related, must be defeated on principle.... What is socialism? It is simply governmental ownership and management of the essential means for the production and distribution of goods. We must never forget that nations may sow the seeds of their own destruction while enjoying unprecedented prosperity. . . .

"Communism is antagonistic to the American way of life. Its avowed purpose is to destroy belief in God and free enterprise.... The fostering of full economic freedom lies at the base of our liberties. Only in perpetuating economic freedom can our social, political, and religious liberties be preserved." (Excerpt from Inaugural address for Dr. Henry A. Dixon, President of USU, delivered by President McKay at the USU fieldhouse, Logan, Utah, Monday, March 18, 1954.)

Again President McKay warned, citing the words of W. C. Mullendore, president of Southern California Edison Company: "During the first half of the twentieth century we have traveled far into the soul-destroying land of socialism and made strange alliances through which we have become involved in almost continuous hot and cold wars over the whole of the earth. In this retreat from freedom the voices of protesting citizens have been drowned by raucous shouts of intolerance and abuse from those who led the retreat and their millions of gullible youth, who are marching merrily to their doom, carrying banners on which are emblazoned such intriguing and misapplied labels as social justice equality, reform patriotism social welfare." (Gospel Ideals, p. 273.)

http://wovoca.com/prophecy-mormon-3.htm

Socialism is a clever imitation of the United order, intended to alow Satan's work to roll forth, nothing more.

[fusnik11]

well its obvious i see things differently....

people talk about the law of consecration being pushed by citizens who own property, and socialism being pushed by goverment taking property....

for some reason i see the church requesting property as a form of goverment, and the redistribution of that wealth not much different than that of a socialist movement....

ive figured socialism has become a sort of swear word in the church, a shame really since the early church was run by a bunch of socialist hacks.

:wink:

[non sequitur]

The law of consecration is not the same as socialism in the way that the two are implemented, but philosophically it is much closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. The goal of both socialism and the LOC is to redistribute wealth. The concept of stewardship is a smokescreen. If I own a thing but someone else benefits from that thing, then my ownership of that thing is false.

The basic difference between socialism and the LOC is that one is directed by government and is mandatory, while the other is directed by the Church and is voluntary. But is it really voluntary? We pay taxes to the government because we are mandated to do so, and we pay tithing to the Church on a voluntary basis. But paying tithing is not really voluntary if we want to be a member of the Church in good standing. For all intents and purposes it is mandatory.

It is clear that the majority of people in the Church are die-hard conservatives and are infatuated with capitalism and despise anything that resembles socialism. That's why it is understandable that people engage in mental and semantic gymnastics when trying to reconcile the LOC with their political beliefs. But if you honestly look at the ideals of the LOC on a philosophical basis and compare those ideals to the ideals of socialism, you can only conclude that the LOC has more in common with socialism than it does with capitalism.

I am not endorsing socialism, and I am not a closet communist. I realize that in the real world it simply does not work. People are not altruistic by nature. People are motivated by greed. Socialism and Communism ultimately lead to corruption and abuse, because people will always look out for themselves first. That is why the LOC didn't work when Joseph Smith was alive, and why it won't work in modern times.

[All-American]

My good friend Ezra Taft Benson had a bit to say about communism and socialism. What say ye, ET?

"I want to speak more particularly this morning about this one law--the law of consecration. It is that one's time, talents, strength, property, and money are given up to the Lord for the express purpose of building up the kingdom of God and establishing Zion on the earth. Or, as we read in Doctrine and Covenants 105:5, "Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom."

"Much has been written about this law and its attempted implementations in the early history of the Church; and much deception has taken root, even among some of our members, because of misinformed opinion or misguided interpretations. Some view it as merely an economic alternative to capitalism or the free enterprise system, others as an outgrowth of early communal experiments in America. Such a view is not only shortsighted but tends to diminish in importance a binding requirement for entrance into the celestial kingdom. The law of consecration is a celestial law, not an economic experiment.

"The vehicle for implementing the law of consecration is the united order. The basic principle underlying the united order is that everything we have belongs to the Lord; and, therefore, the Lord may call upon us for any and all of our property, because it belongs to him. The united order was entered by "a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken" (D&C 42:30), according to the scriptures. In other words, an individual conveys his titles to all his property to the Church through the bishop. The property becomes the property of the Church. You read about this in the forty-second section of the Doctrine and Covenants.

"The bishop then deeds back to the consecrator by legal instrument the amount of personal property required by the individual for the support of himself and his family, as the Lord declares, "according to his circumstances and his wants and needs" (D&C 51:3). This becomes the private, personal property of the individual to develop as he sees fit. It is his stewardship. When an individual produces a profit or surplus more than is needful for the support of himself and his family, the surplus is then placed in the bishops storehouse to administer to the poor and the needy. Under the united order, idleness has no place, and greed, selfishness, and covetousness are condemned. The united order may therefore operate with only a righteous people.

"It has been erroneously concluded by some that the united order is both communal and communistic in theory and practice because the revelations speak of equality. Equality under the united order is not economic and social leveling as advocated by some today. Equality, as described by the Lord, is "equal[ity] according to [a man's] family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs" (D&C 51:3).

Is the united order a communal system? Emphatically not. It never has been and never will be. It is "intensely individualistic." Does the united order eliminate private ownership of property? No. "The fundamental principle of this system [is] the private ownership of property" (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 57).

Two separate groups of saints have fully implemented this divine law. The first was the united order under Enoch, wherein the Lord designated this people Zion, "because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them." We read of this in the seventh chapter, eighteenth verse, of Moses, in the Pearl of Great Price. A second instance was the Nephite civilization following the visit of the Savior to the Western Hemisphere after his resurrection. This is recorded in 4 Nephi, the third verse particularly. The failure of the early Saints in this dispensation to live according to the fulness of the law is explained by the Lord in revelations recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, sections 101 and 105.

I repeat and emphasize that the law of consecration is a law for an inheritance in the celestial kingdom. God, the Eternal Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and all holy beings abide by this law. It is an eternal law. It is a revelation by God to his Church in this dispensation. Though not in full operation today, it will be mandatory for all Saints to live the law in its fulness to receive celestial inheritance. You young people today abide a portion of this higher law as you tithe, pay a generous fast offering, go on missions, and make other contributions of money, service, and time.

Satan's Counterfeit System

But whenever the God of heaven establishes by revelation his design, Satan always comes among men to pervert the doctrine, saying, "Believe it not." He often establishes a counterfeit system, designed to deceive the children of men. His aim, as it was before the foundation of this earth was laid, is to thwart the agency of man and to subjugate him. Throughout all ages of mankind, the adversary has used human agents and despotic governments to establish his purpose. Satan is determined to destroy all that is dear, all that will ennoble and exalt man to a celestial kingdom.

Isaiah foresaw the time when a marvelous work and a wonder would come forth among men (see Isaiah 29:14). Isaiah also predicted that there would be those that "seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they [shall] say, Who seeth us?" (Isaiah 29:15). He saw the time when the work, man, shall say of him that made him, "He made me not," denying his creation (see Isaiah 29:16). It is well to ask what self-proclaimed atheists came on the human scene following the restoration of the gospel, who established secret works of darkness to overthrow nations by violent revolution and who blasphemously proclaimed the atheistic doctrine that God made us not. Yes, Satan works through human agents. We need only look to some of the ignoble figures in human history who were contemporary to the restoration of the gospel to discover fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy. I refer to the infamous founders of communism, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Today, if we are alert, we can see further fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecies.

Communism--a System Antithetical to the Gospel of Christ

Through the instigation of Marx and Engels, a most successful counterfeit to the united order was introduced into the world. The declaration of principles found in their Manifesto to the World advocated the overthrow of capitalism and free enterprise, the abolition of private property, the elimination of the family as a social unit, the abolition of all classes, the overthrow of all governments, and the establishment of communal ownership of property in a classless, stateless society. All this was to be accomplished by revolution.

On July 3, 1936, the First Presidency published this warning to Church members. I quote it in part; I hope you will get a copy of the full statement for your files. In part, the statement reads:

. . . Communism is not a political party, nor a political plan under the Constitution; it is a system of government that is the opposite of our Constitutional government. . . .

Since Communism, established, would destroy our American Constitutional government, to support Communism is treasonable to our free institutions, and no patriotic American citizen may become either a Communist or supporter of Communism.

To our Church members we say, Communism is not the United Order, and bears only the most superficial resemblance thereto. Communism is based upon intolerance and force, the United Order upon love and freedom of conscience and action. . . .

Communists cannot establish the United Order, nor will Communism bring it about. . . .

Communism being thus hostile to loyal American citizenship and incompatible with true Church membership, of necessity no loyal American citizen and no faithful Church member can be a Communist.

We call upon all Church members completely to eschew [and shun] Communism. The safety of our divinely inspired Constitutional government and the welfare of our Church imperatively demand that Communism shall have no place in America.

Signed,

President Heber J. Grant

J. Reuben Clark, Jr.

David O. McKay

The First Presidency



You students have only to read some of the speeches and writings of the exiled Russian Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn to appreciate this farsighted warning of the First Presidency.

I have been on both sides of the Iron Curtain several times. I have talked to these godless leaders face to face. I say to you with all the sincerity of my soul that since 1933 this godless counterfeit to the gospel has made tremendous progress towards its objective of world domination, for over one-third of the human family are now under totalitarian subjugation.

Today we are in a battle for the bodies and souls of men. It is a battle between two opposite systems: freedom and slavery, Christ and anti-Christ. The struggle today is more momentous than a decade ago, yet today the conventional wisdom, so called, is that we have got to learn to live with communism, to give up our ideas about national sovereignty. You hear that repeated today. Tell that to the millions--yes, the scores of millions--who have met death or imprisonment under the tyranny of communism. Learn to live with communism? Such would be the death knell of freedom and all we hold dear.

The gospel of Jesus Christ can prosper only in an atmosphere of freedom. As members of his Church, we have a major responsibility to do all in our power to see that freedom is preserved and safeguarded. I pray that God will bless you to see communism for what it really is: the greatest system of human slavery that the world has ever known. May you not be deceived into believing that the communists have moderated their goal toward world domination. I say to you that so-called detente is a fraud. Time will prove it to be such.

There is no excuse for any BYU instructor to grant a forum to an avowed communist for the purpose of teaching communism on this campus. It may be done on other campuses in the United States, but it will not be done here.

Socialism--a Philosophy Incompatible with Man's Liberty

Another notable counterfeit system to the Lord's plan is collectivized socialism. Socialism derives its philosophy from the founders of communism, Marx and Engels. Communism in practice is socialism. Its purpose is world socialism, which the communists seek to achieve by revolution, and which the socialists seek to achieve by evolution. Both communism and socialism have the same effect upon the individual--a loss of personal liberty. As was said so well by President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., "The two are as two peas in a pod in their ultimate effect upon our liberties."

Why is socialism incompatible with man's liberty? Socialism cannot work except through an all-powerful state. The state has to be supreme in everything. When individuals begin to exert their God-given rights, the state has to suppress that freedom. So belief in God must be suppressed, and with that gone freedom of conscience and religion must also go. Those are the first of our liberties mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

There are some among us who would confuse the united order with socialism. That is a serious misunderstanding. It is significant to me that the Prophet Joseph Smith, after attending lectures on socialism in his day, made this official entry in the Church history: "I said I did not believe the doctrine" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church 6:33).

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6162

He doesn't seem to think communism/socialism has much to do with the United Order.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by All-American

My good friend Ezra Taft Benson had a bit to say about communism and socialism. What say ye, ET?

.....

He doesn't seem to think communism/socialism has much to do with the United Order.

when it comes to objective and true scholarship on matters of race, socio-economic issues and socialism, im going to avoid anything ezra says on the subject.....

i think non-sequitur put it best....

Originally Posted by non-sequitur

It is clear that the majority of people in the Church are die-hard conservatives and are infatuated with capitalism and despise anything that resembles socialism. That's why it is understandable that people engage in mental and semantic gymnastics when trying to reconcile the LOC with their political beliefs. But if you honestly look at the ideals of the LOC on a philosophical basis and compare those ideals to the ideals of socialism, you can only conclude that the LOC has more in common with socialism than it does with capitalism.

members engage in mental and semantic gymnastics when it comes to socialism, abortion, and the death penalty. It's a shame a large contingency of the church has been so indoctrinated with falsehoods concerning certain social issues that we cant traverse these issues with rational thought....if only the church were cougarguard....

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by All-American

He doesn't seem to think communism/socialism has much to do with the United Order.

I wouldn't expect him to admit that they are similar. He makes a big deal about how the LOC allows private ownership. What is the benefit of ownership if you don't get to determine what you do with the things you own? If you aren't free to determine how your possessions are used, then you don't really own them.

At the core, both systems rely on another group of people redistributing wealth. No matter how ETB spins it, both systems are philosophically similar. You simply cannot escape that.

I'm not saying that the LOC is the same as socialism, only that it has more in common with socialism than it does with capitalism. Can you honestly say that it doesn't?

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

At the core, both systems rely on another group of people redistributing wealth. No matter how ETB spins it, both systems are philosophically similar. You simply cannot escape that.

I'm not saying that the LOC is the same as socialism, only that it has more in common with socialism than it does with capitalism. Can you honestly say that it doesn't?

exactly, ding, ding, ding, thank you, as you are much smarter than myself...

at the core both systems are the same. they require a group of people to give up their property to a larger entity that re-distributes as they see fit.

im saying that by definition loc and socialism are twins. they arent identical, but they are borne of the same idea, same purpose, and come from the same womb....

[Alkili]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

im saying that by definition loc and socialism are twins. they arent identical, but they are borne of the same idea, same purpose, and come from the same womb....

I would say that socialism is a copy of the truth who's true purpose is to bind people, where as LOC is true doctrine who's purpose is to build people up to exaltation.

the difference between good and evil sometimes is paper thin.

[tooblue]

While sequitur and fusnik make salient points the fundamental difference between socialism and LOC is CHOICE. Therefore it cannot be argued that they are similar. In fact they are no more similar than an orange and an apple, unless your contention is purely to assert that they are both fruit!

Any society that excises from the populace, at its heart, is socialist. Therefore each of us lives in a socialist society and the only true degree of difference is found in systems, structure and semantics ;-)

WHEN the LOC is put into place, here upon this earth, members of the kingdom will CHOOSE to consecrate all that they own along with their talents, time and effort to the Kingdom of God. No single person will be coerced. As it now stands each of us are coerced daily to impart of our increase to government and compelled to return a portion of that same increase to the Lord.

Furthermore we can no more compare capitalism to LOC than we can socialism. Capitalism and Socialism are constructs of Men –fallible, weak and ultimately self-destructive.