07-08-2008, 03:15 AM | #11 |
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Have you wondered if this is perhaps a spiritual tipping point?
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/hel/5/2#2 |
07-08-2008, 03:19 AM | #12 | |
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I don't really believe #1, and I see that nobody else really does either. So I'm happy to dispense with that notion. I thought more people would have spoken up for the third idea, which is that it was done out of the interest of those who would have otherwise engaged in same-gender relations. Here, perhaps, is a better way of rephrasing the question. I am most decisively not gay. I am extremely attracted to beautiful women. Is the opposition to gay marriage for MY sake, and the sake of others like me, or is it for the sake of those who ARE gay? Or both?
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εν αρχη ην ο λογος Last edited by All-American; 07-08-2008 at 03:26 AM. |
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07-08-2008, 03:23 AM | #13 | |
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"Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12 |
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07-08-2008, 03:27 AM | #14 | |
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Let's hope those with the moral high ground prevail. Last edited by CardiacCoug; 07-08-2008 at 03:56 AM. |
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07-08-2008, 03:28 AM | #15 | |
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07-08-2008, 03:33 AM | #16 |
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I see it as all the reasons you listed, plus what UtahDan said. I am not sure there is any one reason why the Church is doing this, but an amalgam of many reasons.
The timing is clear......if there were no pending legislation, this would not be a pressing issue right now. The other reason that is getting thrown around is that this move is a sort of castling maneuver on the part of the Church. They see the pieces on the board and are preemptively protecting their King for an attack that is 8 moves away. Specifically, if same sex marriage becomes legal in California, it is only a matter of time before it becomes legal in more states. The Church's refusal to participate will eventually threaten its tax exempt status. Or so goes the argument. I don't buy this argument at all. First, I doubt very highly that most here have even read Sec 501(c)(3). If they had, they would realize that, if anything, all this clandestine political lobbying is a greater threat to the Church's tax-exempt status than anything else. While the IRS has much more stringent limitations on its ability to audit churches, I am sure it would be interested in a tell-all expose of "behind the scenes" documents and communications in PEC, Sacrament, etc that deal with directing members how to vote on specific legislation. For being politically neutral, the Church seems to have a lot to say to its members when it comes election time. Since the religious exemption for Civil Rights is not going anywhere, the only way the Church's "tax exempt" status may possibly be affected is at BYU of all places. The Bob Jones case really only extended to schools. So it would be possible that BYU could lose its tax exempt status....assuming that it currently IS tax exempt. I am not even sure that it is. The Church itself does not receive federal funds, so it would not be at any risk of losing such aid/funding. I guess another possible loss of exemption would affect paid Church employees. For anyone who currently or has worked for the Church, does anyone know if the Church withholds and pays for its employees? Even some of them? I would imagine no, but again, not sure. I think the mistaken notion is that the Church as a whole would have to start paying tax on all tithing and donations (as revenue), and this is simply not the case. Every major religion is opposed to homosexuality. Could you imagine the loss of tax exempt status for all world religions?
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07-08-2008, 03:36 AM | #17 | |
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Keeping gays at bay simply makes us feel better about our fashion missteps. From that standpoint, we are really not a fabulous organization.
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07-08-2008, 04:01 AM | #18 | |
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You come down on the side of earthly emotional and physical well-being in the form of loving relationships memorialized in the bonds of marriage. I think I come from less progressive stock; suffer in this life for the sake of the next.
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"Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12 |
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07-08-2008, 04:03 AM | #19 | |
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I'm not sure Church leaders even recognize the existence of gay people, just people who have chosen a gay, sinful lifestyle. I'm not sure they would even make the distinction that you are making between gay and straight. God wouldn't make somebody gay -- it's not part of the eternal plan. |
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07-08-2008, 04:08 AM | #20 | |
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There is something to be said for the peace that comes when choosing obedience, even when that obedience causes immense suffering and pain. Would you counsel a person to refrain from being baptized if that would result in him being shunned by his family, his friends, and his culture? (I tihnk my answer may vary depending on the situation. There is no dobut that such a choice would cause immense pain, even though such a choice would bring the peace that follows obediently following the Savior. I'm sincerely interested to hear your answer here.) What of the load that Christ promises to carry for those with extra heavy crosses? And carrying the load does not mean eliminating the loneliness or the anguish, I'm sure. But I think it means, at least it has in my experience with my crosses, that Christ assures us that there is purpose in carrying the load; that is, he gives hope.
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"Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12 Last edited by Levin; 07-08-2008 at 04:12 AM. |
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