If you found out that the Golden Plates never existed, would you still be a Mormon?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The Anthon Transcript argues against the plates being just present in a temporary vision, or being non-literal in conception to JS and his followers.

How does this argue against the plates being non-literal? Joseph Smith wrote characters and gave them to Harris, who showed them to Anthon?

[Mormon Red Death]

I guess it would depend on how they or you found out the plates were never there

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

How does this argue against the plates being non-literal? Joseph Smith wrote characters and gave them to Harris, who showed them to Anthon?

My thoughts too. I mean, even the characters on the Kinderhook plates were pretty convincing. I mean, Joseph actually translated them after all.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

My thoughts too. I mean, even the characters on the Kinderhook plates were pretty convincing. I mean, Joseph actually translated them after all.

And they said . . .

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

I guess it would depend on how they or you found out the plates were never there

Here are a few simple points.

Regarding the Pearl of Great Price:

1) We have the document from which the Pearl of Great Price was translated.

2) The document from which the Pearl of Great Price was translated is a funerary scroll.

Therefore, we know that Joseph Smith's translation of the scrolls was not literal. This does not exclude the possibility that the Pearl of Great Price is an inspired text.

Regarding the Book of Mormon:

1) We don't have the Golden Plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated, but there were 11 witnesses who claim to have seen the plates.

2) The Book of Mormon mentions all kinds of things that are literal impossibilities. (e.g. horses and elephants in the Americas, etc.)

So, we have the word of 11 men who saw some plates. However, we can't exclude the possibility that these people saw the plates in a vision, nor can we exclude the possibility that plates were generated and then shown to these witnesses.

We have the words of the Book of Mormon, which are tremendously inspiring to me personally (and I believe the book to be inspired by God). Unfortunately, the Book of Mormon makes certain claims which are historically impossible. Therefore, what is the likelihood that the Book of Mormon was a literal translation from Golden Plates which we do not have, given what we know about the translation of the Pearl of Great Price?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

It's not a lie if you believe it's really happening.

So what basis do you have to believe that this was some wild, sustained hallucination rather than some physical reality? Especially when you have at least 11 others signing off on it, including several disaffected members that despite their differences with Joseph Smith never recanted their testimony.

Occam's Razor?

[Flystripper]

how could you belong to a religion that has consistently lied to you about the nature and origin of the scriptures that we call the Keystone of our religion.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

2) The Book of Mormon mentions all kinds of things that are literal impossibilities. (e.g. horses and elephants in the Americas, etc.)

Maybe like BYU71 said to Tex, are you familiar with the phrase "in my opinion"?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

how could you belong to a religion that has consistently lied to you about the nature and origin of the Scriptures that we call the Keystone of our religion.

Try the Bible and the Quran, and ask the same question to Christians and Muslims.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

So what basis do you have to believe that this was some wild, sustained hallucination rather than some physical reality? Especially when you have at least 11 others signing off on it, including several disaffected members that despite their differences with Joseph Smith never recanted their testimony.

Occam's Razor?

Someone posted an account here recently where one of the disaffected witnesses described the encounter in language that was unambiguously describing something perceived as literal and real. Not hazy, mystical, and probable. But physical, real, and definite.