Beck talk

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

And I thought you were trying to be nice to/ignore me.

The implication of "Link?" is that the assertion is bunk. IOW, she didn't say women don't do enough around the house, and there is no controversy (outside of CG).

"Link?" is much more succinct.

A link that backs up a personal opinion? Are you just wanting him to link to his own post that states that it is his opinion?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Since I'm a prime "offender", I often respond with "Link?" because someone makes a comment which implies they are basing it on something they have read or learned, rather than a off-the-cuff opinion; and rather than just make a quick response to what they've said, I prefer to read more on the subject before formulating a response.

EDIT: Sometimes, I also ask just to see if they aren't just full of crap when they claim something specific (i.e. not offered as opinion) but sounds too outlandish to be true.

So for this statement, "I think she had no idea that the things she was saying would be controversial," exactly what would you expect from a link?

Someone else's opinion that Sooner didn't think she knew what she was saying would be controversial? Or someone else's opinion that she didn't know what she was saying would be controversial? Wouldn't any such link also require yet another link to someone else's opinion? And exactly what would be the value of any of that?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Yes.

If all talks were approved ahead of time, the transcript of all talks would match exactly the published version in the Ensign, which is most certainly not the case.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

IMO, men generally aren't any good at cleaning anyway. Women do a better job at it, so they probably should be spearheading the efforts to make sure the home isn't turning into a dump.

Maybe men aren't any good at it because they don't get church lessons emphasizing how important it is for females to be house-cleaners.

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

and

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

There's nothing wrong with having a clean house. It's probably not the most productive use of church instruction time, though. It's especially glaring that there is no equivalent lesson for young men. Apparently, the young men have more important things to learn.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Solon

Maybe men aren't any good at it because they don't get church lessons emphasizing how important it is for females to be house-cleaners.

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

and

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

There's nothing wrong with having a clean house. It's probably not the most productive use of church instruction time, though. It's especially glaring that there is no equivalent lesson for young men. Apparently, the young men have more important things to learn.

That bothers me too. Do men have no responsibility to clean or help around the house? It is certainly the implication. Fathers "who know" work, go home, and watch television. I am waiting for that talk from Mr. Beck.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

My problem with it is the whole "mothers who know" rhetoric.

After hearing the talk, this was the exact feeling I had. It wasn't until I went back and re-read the talk that I remembered that "mothers who know" was a tie in to Alma 56:48 ("Our mothers knew it"). I think I see what she was trying to do there, but I'm afraid it had the effect of leading folks to the logical conclusion that if one isn't doing things in exactly her prescribed manner then they are a mother who "doesn't know". I'm not sure that was her intention, but I can certainly see how people arrive at that conclusion.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Solon

Maybe men aren't any good at it because they don't get church lessons emphasizing how important it is for females to be house-cleaners.

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

and

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...ontentLocale=0

There's nothing wrong with having a clean house. It's probably not the most productive use of church instruction time, though. It's especially glaring that there is no equivalent lesson for young men. Apparently, the young men have more important things to learn.

Some of the Duty to God requirements for young men include making meals for the family and doing their own laundry. Lessons published by the church for young men include instruction to learn how to cook, clean, iron shirts, etc.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Some of the Duty to God requirements for young men include making meals for the family and doing their own laundry. Lessons published by the church for young men include instruction to learn how to cook, clean, iron shirts, etc.

But the reason given for males learning to cook, clean, and iron is mission prep, not marriage prep.

[SoCalCoug]

Still waiting to hear why I'm off-base on my actual criticism of Sis. Beck's talk. People on Mullah-central were very quick to condemn me, without actually addressing my criticism.

By the way, I think Cali and SteelBlue have put it much more clearly than I did. I completely endorse their posts.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

But the reason given for males learning to cook, clean, and iron is mission prep, not marriage prep.

That's kind of true. The Duty to God requirement is more of a life preparation thing, the lessons are usually specifically mission prep. That is a mistake, IMHO.