Predict the allocation of humanity to the 3 degrees

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You are assuming that once those people are put in the telestial kingdom, they have to remain there forever and can't ever progress past that to the celestial kingdom.

And you are assuming that what was seen in the vision was a representation of what definitely would be, as opposed to what could be (like with Jonah).

And you seem to really be hoping that more go to the telestial kingdom (is that hope consistent with the gospel?).

When I was young and had some mullah-ish tendencies, I used to get a grin in my mind whenever I encountered someone that I was sure would end up in the telestial kingdom. Sickening to think about that prideful attitude, but life is meant for learning, and we move on.

I always come back to what is said in Isaiah. God's ways are not our ways. The scriptures are by definition, limited. How do you construct a projection from the infinite to the finite? I can sort of picture a projection from 4D to 3D, and 3D to 2D or 1D. But something that is infinite?
DC19 provides an important key. Jesus, Paul and Moroni provide another key. Just accept and be nice to each other. Everything other than that will fail anyway. Paul emphasizes that even prophecy will fail. Charity is all that really matters.
The more I learn about people, meet people, learn about their lives, their experiences, the less and less I believe that life is a test. I don't think God is that evil. Life is an experience. God made up an individual itinerary for everyone. Everyone needed something different, so everyone got something different. How else do we reconcile what we see here on earth? The idea that I was better in heaven and was sent to a middle class mormon family in the US and some starving kid in Africa was evil is just sickening. God isn't an asshole. Everyone's itinerary is exactly what is needed to perfect them. God is a nice guy. He likes us. We're all supposed to screw up, majorly, very majorly. It's all about experience.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Brian

When I was young and had some mullah-ish tendencies, I used to get a grin in my mind whenever I encountered someone that I was sure would end up in the telestial kingdom. Sickening to think about that prideful attitude, but life is meant for learning, and we move on.

I always come back to what is said in Isaiah. God's ways are not our ways. The scriptures are by definition, limited. How do you construct a projection from the infinite to the finite? I can sort of picture a projection from 4D to 3D, and 3D to 2D or 1D. But something that is infinite?
DC19 provides an important key. Jesus, Paul and Moroni provide another key. Just accept and be nice to each other. Everything other than that will fail anyway. Paul emphasizes that even prophecy will fail. Charity is all that really matters.
The more I learn about people, meet people, learn about their lives, their experiences, the less and less I believe that life is a test. I don't think God is that evil. Life is an experience. God made up an individual itinerary for everyone. Everyone needed something different, so everyone got something different. How else do we reconcile what we see here on earth? The idea that I was better in heaven and was sent to a middle class mormon family in the US and some starving kid in Africa was evil is just sickening. God isn't an asshole. Everyone's itinerary is exactly what is needed to perfect them. God is a nice guy. He likes us. We're all supposed to screw up, majorly, very majorly. It's all about experience.

Interesting thoughts.

As an aside, for reasons irrelevant here, I can't ever imagine what another's destination will be, usually just hoping for the best for another. In fact, it pains me to think another will end up in circumstances less than ideal.

[RC Vikings]

Celestial TEX

Terrestrial Most everybody else

Telestial Hitler

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Brian

The idea that I was better in heaven and was sent to a middle class mormon family in the US and some starving kid in Africa was evil is just sickening.

Given our teachings on those that die before the age of accountability and the infant mortality rates in the third world, sounds like those of us that ended up in middle class North American mormon families got screwed.

I tend to believe like you do about our sojourn here on earth.

Thanks for the help on the Terrestial and Telestial Kingdoms. A little seminary teacher trick of the trade.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Tex

Well all those liars, sorcerers, adulterers, whoremongers will be glad to hear that!

"But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;"

0% never looked so big.

Have you spent much time with liars, thieves, murders, adulterers? Do you know their stories? And in particular, do you know their childhood experiences?
I knew, not very well, but a little, a guy who is in jail for murder right now. He was trying to get active in the church and get his life turned around. He had an awful childhood. His dad was a complete prick, beat him, left the family. The poor kid didn't have a chance. But, he tried to straighten out, but the forces were too strong. A home robbery went bad and he killed several people in a family. Tragedy on both sides.

Currently, my parents' church callings are at the women's jail. Tragic stories, every one of them. These women have been so mistreated, it's no wonder they made the choices they did. I certainly can't blame them for turning to drugs, or prostitution to get drugs, or stealing to get drugs, just to make the pain stop, for just a few minutes.
Some are strong enough to overcome enormous odds, but many aren't. Why God gave these experiences is in his wisdom. Why many fail to overcome is in his wisdom. Why some are fortunate enough to overcome is in his wisdom.

White collar crime and sin: there are similar reasons for these as well. People just don't decide to become evil. A void in their lives is perceived and a convenient opiate of choice (be it lying, cheating, over-billing, immorality, fanatical religion) is used to ease the pain. These voids have causes, often from childhood. And only God has control over what kind of childhood a person has.
One day it will all make sense. We will all get whatever we need to perfect our unique selves.
His ways are not our ways.

Yes, I suppose they will be glad to one day rest from their burdens. And I will be glad with them. We will all be glad, because we are all "them".

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You are assuming that once those people are put in the telestial kingdom, they have to remain there forever and can't ever progress past that to the celestial kingdom.

And you are assuming that what was seen in the vision was a representation of what definitely would be, as opposed to what could be (like with Jonah).

And the doctrine of reincarnation could be one of the "great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God" yet to be revealed.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

And you seem to really be hoping that more go to the telestial kingdom.

Your skills of perception are as usual, flawed.

I simply don't subscribe to the "I don't like the doctrine, so I'll make up my own" approach.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Brian

Have you spent much time with liars, thieves, murders, adulterers? Do you know their stories? And in particular, do you know their childhood experiences?
...
Yes, I suppose they will be glad to one day rest from their burdens. And I will be glad with them. We will all be glad, because we are all "them".

We are all "liars, thieves, murders, adulterers" eh? Heh.

I'm suddenly wondering where all the murderer-defenders were during the MMM discussion. Maybe they had a rough home life, too.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Tex

We are all "liars, thieves, murders, adulterers" eh? Heh.

Well, only you are perfect, so everyone but you.

Originally Posted by Tex

I'm suddenly wondering where all the murderer-defenders were during the MMM discussion. Maybe they had a rough home life, too.

Well, they seemed like religious nuts. Don't know much about them.

[Archaea]

One analogy I like is the story of the last supper.

When Christ announced someone of his followers would betray him, all asked, is it I?

So, even those whom others hold in high esteem, the apostles of the Lord, recognized their own guilt and potential for evil.

Why is it so hard to focus upon one's own guilt instead of comparing to think, "Well at least I'm not thaaat bad, as this guy over here"?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Archaea

One analogy I like is the story of the last supper.

When Christ announced someone of his followers would betray him, all asked, is it I?

So, even those whom others hold in high esteem, the apostles of the Lord, recognized their own guilt and potential for evil.

Why is it so hard to focus upon one's own guilt instead of comparing to think, "Well at least I'm not thaaat bad, as this guy over here"?

Very good point.
We're not *really* sure exactly what we are or are not capable of doing.

It's so easy because of the addiction to the Tree of the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Constantly judging what is good and what is evil.

As if the puny human mind could possibly know.