Abraham/Isaac sacrifice - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 02-13-2008, 12:18 AM

Who here believes the narrative as proposed?

I'm aware of its metaphorical value, but does everybody simply accept at face value that Abraham was requested and accepted the fact that he intended to sacrifice Isaac? I will not deny the power of the analogy, but whether anybody is really willing to kill one's offspring, is very difficult for me to accept. It is also plausible for me that something which evolved into the current narrative actually occurred, but what do I know.

Any other speculations?

PaloAltoCougar · 02-13-2008, 12:47 AM

I believe it, but mainly because believing it adds power to the message; i.e., I want to believe it. I can only take Kierkegaard in small doses, but his Panegyric Upon Abraham, at the beginning of Fear and Trembling, has provided fodder for at least a half dozen talks I've given over the years. Like the narrator in that introduction, I'm incapable of fully understanding or appreciating Abraham, but it's an interesting exercise to try.

DrumNFeather · 02-13-2008, 01:00 AM

The Abraham/Issac story was presented recently in a lesson I attended as an example of the "refiner's fire."

I suppose the point was that Abraham wanted all of the things he wanted for himself, not because it was the lord's will. Through his faith and the refiner's fire of having to give Issac up as an offering to the Lord, he was showing the lord that he would do the lord's will when asked.

SoonerCoug · 02-13-2008, 01:10 AM

The Abraham/Isaac sacrifice is one of the most damaging and stupid stories in all scripture, IMO.

Job also ranks right up there.

JohnnyLingo · 02-13-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

The Abraham/Isaac sacrifice is one of the most damaging and stupid stories in all scripture, IMO.

Job also ranks right up there.

You never disappoint, Sooner.

Inflammatory statement with zero explanation or support. Ding!

Ready for this? My Old Testament teacher believes Abraham actually sacrificed Isaac and God raised Isaac from the dead later.

scottie · 02-13-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

The Abraham/Isaac sacrifice is one of the most damaging and stupid stories in all scripture, IMO.

Job also ranks right up there.

Noah and the flood, Moses and the Red Sea, Daniel and the lion's den, baby Moses floating down the river...

SoonerCoug · 02-13-2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

You never disappoint, Sooner.

Inflammatory statement with zero explanation or support. Ding!

Ready for this? My Old Testament teacher believes Abraham actually sacrificed Isaac and God raised Isaac from the dead later.

Your Old Testament teacher is an idiot. You can tell him I said that.

JohnnyLingo · 02-13-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Your Old Testament teacher is an idiot. You can tell him I said that.

I'll be sure to do that.

Aren't you even a little curious as to how he arrived there? He's a converted Jew, btw.

Also, you have no substance. You can tell you I said that.

pelagius · 02-13-2008, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I'll be sure to do that.

Aren't you even a little curious as to how he arrived there? He's a converted Jew, btw.

Also, you have no substance. You can tell you I said that.

The idea that Isaac was raised from the dead is found is some rabbinic midrash. I assume he is drawing on those sources.

woot · 02-13-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I'll be sure to do that.

Aren't you even a little curious as to how he arrived there? He's a converted Jew, btw.

Also, you have no substance. You can tell you I said that.

I'd enjoy hearing that explanation.

While the Abraham story is indeed horrible (Killing is fine as long you think God told you to!), it's hard to beat the flood story. God wipes out however many millions of people because they were "wicked," when he's the one supposedly responsible for creating them that way to begin with. Without changing their nature, humans return to "sin" immediately. I wonder if God was surprised by that or if he just got his rocks off by killing people. Otherwise, what was the point of the flood?

02-13-2008, 12:18 AM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Abraham/Isaac sacrifice Who here believes the narrative as proposed? I'm aware of its metaphorical value, but does everybody simply accept at face value that Abraham was requested and accepted the fact that he intended to sacrifice Isaac? I will not deny the power of the analogy, but whether anybody is really willing to kill one's offspring, is very difficult for me to accept. It is also plausible for me that something which evolved into the current narrative actually occurred, but what do I know. Any other speculations? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

02-13-2008, 01:10 AM	#4
SoonerCoug Formerly known as MudPhudCoug Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Land of desolation Posts: 2,548	The Abraham/Isaac sacrifice is one of the most damaging and stupid stories in all scripture, IMO. Job also ranks right up there. Last edited by SoonerCoug; 02-13-2008 at 01:14 AM.

02-13-2008, 12:47 AM	#2
PaloAltoCougar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 580	I believe it, but mainly because believing it adds power to the message; i.e., I want to believe it. I can only take Kierkegaard in small doses, but his Panegyric Upon Abraham, at the beginning of Fear and Trembling, has provided fodder for at least a half dozen talks I've given over the years. Like the narrator in that introduction, I'm incapable of fully understanding or appreciating Abraham, but it's an interesting exercise to try.

02-13-2008, 01:00 AM	#3
DrumNFeather Active LDS Ute Fan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nantucket : ) Posts: 2,566	The Abraham/Issac story was presented recently in a lesson I attended as an example of the "refiner's fire." I suppose the point was that Abraham wanted all of the things he wanted for himself, not because it was the lord's will. Through his faith and the refiner's fire of having to give Issac up as an offering to the Lord, he was showing the lord that he would do the lord's will when asked.