Intervention show--gay LDS guy

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Stay away from UteStar when you see him on the pirate ship.

So you're trying to stake out your territory, or make certain your man stays true?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Do you feel like homosexuals are born "gay"? I certainly do (and a whole lot of research supports it). Yet, your second point seems to counter this.

I'm not an expert on the subject. I would say like so many other issues, it's both genetic and environmental. But my second point doesn't necessarily counter that. Throw in, "genetic inclination to homosexuality" to my list of environmental issues.

[BoylenOver]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Stay away from UteStar when you see him on the pirate ship.

I'll remember to not tap my toes.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I agree with this. In this case, I would say language betrays my ignorance or inexperience on the explosiveness of the issue and that word not any malice. I would feel pretty comfortable talking with a gay person on this subject without him thinking I was a jerk bigot.

Well, I have been corrected on my use of the phrase "gay lifestyle" so that's why I know about it.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

2. Butterfly Effect principle. Hard to believe a deep concept can come out of anything related to Ashton Kutcher, but this is deep. I dare say you put any of the brethren in that kid's shoes: father dead at age two, overbearing mom, molested by male and female at young age, raised in Idaho, inclination to dancing, introduction to drugs and gay lifestyle at right/wrong time, and you get this kid. You don't get a member of the 12, that's for sure. You put this kid from Intervention in the upraising one of the 12 had, and maybe you get an apostle. How does this principle relate to our obsession on works/worthiness/church discipline/etc.?

I have long felt that there are more than 12 men on the earth at any given time worthy and capable of being an apostle. It's a special calling that comes to specific men for reasons known only to God, but it does not mean they have some exclusive lock on a higher level of righteousness.

And I think they would say as much.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BoylenOver

I'll remember to not tap my toes.

Narrow your stance and watch wear you hum Utah Man.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm not an expert on the subject. I would say like so many other issues, it's both genetic and environmental. But my second point doesn't necessarily counter that. Throw in, "genetic inclination to homosexuality" to my list of environmental issues.

OK...I can go with that. It likely is a combination of both. I do think, however, that genetics plays a larger role than environment.

I do think this is an important point, however. The underlying message in your point is that when you have a child who is gay, the parents or the son did something wrong that made them gay. I'm not excusing his acting-out behavior, but I do think we have to get past this idea that the disposition itsself is wrong. For example, what if I were to suggest that Sherri Dew was gay? Would you consider that pejorative? Why? I think it's sort of telling about our underlying attitudes.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

OK...I can go with that. It likely is a combination of both. I do think, however, that genetics plays a larger role than environment.

I do think this is an important point, however. The underlying message in your point is that when you have a child who is gay, the parents or the son did something wrong that made them gay. I'm not excusing his acting-out behavior, but I do think we have to get past this idea that the disposition itsself is wrong. For example, what if I were to suggest that Sherri Dew was gay? Would you consider that pejorative? Why? I think it's sort of telling about our underlying attitudes.

Why is there only one twofold option, of dislike or compassion? Why is disconnection also not an option?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Well, I have been corrected on my use of the phrase "gay lifestyle" so that's why I know about it.

One of the PR problems the gay community faces is its own radical wing. It's not surprising to me that folks associate "gay lifestyle" with the behavior santos described, when that is the common public face associated with it.

Militant gays do not trot out the successful "life partner" pair of two men or two women living in suburbia with three well-adjusted children as the face of their "lifestyle." And it's not like I'm interested in going out of my way to figure out what terms gays find offensive and what they don't.

Trying to be PC is a fulltime job, and not one that I get paid for.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

One of the PR problems the gay community faces is its own radical wing. It's not surprising to me that folks associate "gay lifestyle" with the behavior santos described, when that is the common public face associated with it.

Militant gays do not trot out the successful "life partner" pair of two men or two women living in suburbia with three well-adjusted children as the face of their "lifestyle." And it's not like I'm interested in going out of my way to figure out what terms gays find offensive and what they don't.

Trying to be PC is a fulltime job, and not one that I get paid for.

ok cracker.