do 8 year olds "decide" to be baptized?

[RedHeadGal]

I attended a child's baptism last weekend, and I was struck by how often people talked to the child about her "decision" to be baptized. I'm not saying they are forced, but it seems a bit odd to me to suggest that they are really making a meaningful decision there. I don't remember deciding anything about it.

[Indy Coug]

If we're old enough to know right from wrong at age 8, doesn't that mean we know enough to choose to be baptized? My daughter was baptized last week. She's been talking about this for at least 2 years. She was really, really excited about it. She goes to church every week and listens to the lessons. It was an informed decision.

[MikeWaters]

I know of a couple that delayed the decision until their daughter was older, in hopes she would make a more meaningful, informed decision.

She was 10 I think. Of course that means she is a convert baptism, and the missionaries have to go through the discussions.

Let's face it: these are largely formalities, ritual, and custom.

If you delay baptism for an eight year old, because you feel it is too young, then you will be looked at askance.

[TripletDaddy]

Kids "decide" to get baptized? I guess in the same way they "decide" to eat vegetables and do their chores and homework instead of watching TV.

Still doesnt make it a bad thing, but there is no real decision being made, not in the truest sense.

In Indy's case, did the parents explain that the child was actually perfectly fine choosing to not get baptized and that they would support her either way, no matter what her choice would be? Did they allow her to explore other religions? Did they talk to her about other options apart from baptism?

I doubt it.

I am not condemning it because my kids will also "decide" to get baptized when they are 8....whether they want to or no.

[Tex]

Perhaps the word "decide" is a bit misplaced, if you're taking it to mean that an adult used the scientific method to weigh the options, and make a cerebral decision about the pros and cons of baptism.

But let's not be ridiculous. A child is not an adult, even at age 8, 10, or even 16. We baptize at 8 because that's the time the Lord says a child becomes accountable, meaning a greater need to understand the atonement, and a greater need for the influence of the Spirit (via the Gift).

Calling it a "decision" is a way of conveying to the child--and reminding the rest of us--of the importance of the ordinance, and our own personal responsibility to keeping our covenants. Dickering over the term seems a little silly to me.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yes they choose. From one choice placed before them. Would you like to be separated from your family forever and disappoint everyone you know and love in your entire life? Or would you like to be baptized and become a member of the Church?

You think that most 8 year olds even know about those concepts? If I told my kids that they couldn't be with us forever if they didn't get baptized (eventually), they'd be shocked. If they've heard this from other sources, I'm not aware of it, but they haven't heard it from me or my wife.

Indy, I submit that to say it is a choice with any degree of honesty, you have to have at least 10% saying no. When you have 99.999999% saying yes, you can't honestly say the kids have a choice. Maybe your daughter would have said yes even with a real choice. But that doesn't mean she had one.

Of course my daughter had a real choice. Dating back to the time she was 4 or 5, everytime they announced a baptism at church, she would pester us to take her to it. She made it clear that she wanted to be baptized. Do any of us really make choices in an "influential vacuum" where the examples and expectations of others don't impact our decision-making?

I'm glad she has the Gift of the Holy Ghost now to help her steer through the murky waters of life now that she is being exposed to more situations where she has to decide right from wrong.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Of course my daughter had a real choice. Dating back to the time she was 4 or 5, everytime they announced a baptism at church, she would pester us to take her to it. She made it clear that she wanted to be baptized. Do any of us really make choices in an "influential vacuum" where the examples and expectations of others don't impact our decision-making?

so her expressed decision at the age of 4 to be baptized was an informed decision?

Did you teach her about other world religions and other Christian traditions and how she could join those instead of being baptized? Certainly you did not.

How many people even remember their 8 year old baptisms?

I vaguely remember mine, but I remember nothing of the confirmation.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

so her expressed decision at the age of 4 to be baptized was an informed decision?

Did you teach her about other world religions and other Christian traditions and how she could join those instead of being baptized? Certainly you did not.

How many people even remember their 8 year old baptisms?

I vaguely remember mine, but I remember nothing of the confirmation.

I'm saying we weren't baptism cheerleaders. Whatever excitement and motivation she had for it didn't come from us.

I remember my 8 year old baptism just fine.

At what age should people be baptized? How much knowledge and understanding and freedom from the brutal dictates of parents, friends and family is required in order to make an informed decision to be baptized?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

You think that most 8 year olds even know about those concepts? If I told my kids that they couldn't be with us forever if they didn't get baptized (eventually), they'd be shocked. If they've heard this from other sources, I'm not aware of it, but they haven't heard it from me or my wife.



Of course my daughter had a real choice. Dating back to the time she was 4 or 5, everytime they announced a baptism at church, she would pester us to take her to it. She made it clear that she wanted to be baptized. Do any of us really make choices in an "influential vacuum" where the examples and expectations of others don't impact our decision-making?

I'm glad she has the Gift of the Holy Ghost now to help her steer through the murky waters of life now that she is being exposed to more situations where she has to decide right from wrong.

My choice to get baptized was done against the wishes of my mom. Nobody in my family came to my baptism. My parents did not expose me to religion. I had to study it on my own.

I made my own decision.

Your daughter did not. The fact that she was excited about it doesnt mean that it was informed.

But, like I said, I do not condemn it because basically we are also going the same route as you, and pretty much everyone else in our culture....teach our kids that they will baptized at 8, never ever really give them any other option beyond getting baptized at 8, and let them know clearly that we believe that no other church is the true church.

It will be a very informed triple baptism.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I'm saying we weren't baptism cheerleaders. Whatever excitement and motivation she had for it didn't come from us.

I remember my 8 year old baptism just fine.

At what age should people be baptized? How much knowledge and understanding and freedom from the brutal dictates of parents, friends and family is required in order to make an informed decision to be baptized?

At what age do you think you could have learned enough about another religion to break away from your upbringing as a Mormon?

13?

Like I said before, baptism at 8 years old is a ritual and a custom. Let's not argue that it isn't.