I've thought long and hard about Prop. 8

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

That plan sounds vaguely familiar......and surely I will do it...that one soul shall not be lost....

I actually strongly considered that plan. Which is of course the reason I tan so well.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

This is my opinion. I believe that when you sustain the church leaders, that's your chance to decide whether or not you're going to follow his counsel. You don't have the option of picking and choosing after that. I will also venture to say that the same stands for local leaders, so long as they are not opposition to the general church leadership.

I don't believe in selectively sustaining church leadership. If that's the way it works, why even bother sustaining them at all? What would be the point? I never raised my hand to sustain them with the idea that I was only going to support church leadership when I feel like it, or only so long as they do things my way.

Everybody screws up, but you should at least do your best to minimize the screw ups, and I'm doing my best.

would you feel the same way about your righteous priesthood-holding husband when married?

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by YOhio

I actually strongly considered that plan. Which is of course the reason I tan so well.

Hahahaha! Wow - that actually made me laugh out loud!

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

Hahahaha! Wow - that actually made me laugh out loud!

That was brilliant, wasn't it?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I think there are two main areas of concern about this one...although I could be wrong...this is just my opinion...


1. The Church has taken positions before on social issues (polygamy, blacks for example) and then later reversed its position....whether by revelation or from political pressure, nobody here can say for sure.
2. Church leaders are not perfect and there is no doctrine of infallibility. Therefore, the question is......is this gay marriage issue really God talking to everyone....or is it some older white guys in SLC who feel strongly about gays....just as old white guys in SLC felt strongly about blacks/interracial relationships/etc in the 50s and 60s....and just as old white guys in SLC felt strongly about plural marriage when the saints came to Utah....all of which at one time was the will of God, but then all of a sudden was no longer the will of God.

I think some here are simply skipping a step and fast forwarding to the point wherein this gay marriage thing will no longer be the cause of all our problems. In a few more years, there will be a new cause of all our problems. I will likely hop back on the train at that point.

I appreciate your post, though, and think it is a good quote by GBH.

I get it.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I think there are two main areas of concern about this one...although I could be wrong...this is just my opinion...


1. The Church has taken positions before on social issues (polygamy, blacks for example) and then later reversed its position....whether by revelation or from political pressure, nobody here can say for sure.
2. Church leaders are not perfect and there is no doctrine of infallibility. Therefore, the question is......is this gay marriage issue really God talking to everyone....or is it some older white guys in SLC who feel strongly about gays....just as old white guys in SLC felt strongly about blacks/interracial relationships/etc in the 50s and 60s....and just as old white guys in SLC felt strongly about plural marriage when the saints came to Utah....all of which at one time was the will of God, but then all of a sudden was no longer the will of God.

I think some here are simply skipping a step and fast forwarding to the point wherein this gay marriage thing will no longer be the cause of all our problems. In a few more years, there will be a new cause of all our problems. I will likely hop back on the train at that point.

I appreciate your post, though, and think it is a good quote by GBH.

It's a moral issue for me. How is homosexuality viewed by God? Ok or not OK?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

Yep. If opposition to gay marriage has become a fundamental, core belief of our religion, then the Brethren would add a question about it to the temple recommend interview.

Until that happens, nobody who opposes Proposition 8 is being asked to give up full membership in the Church. Maybe it's those who think this issue is a required component of being a good Church member who are "missing the mark" here.

When you agree, sustain? When you don't, change the definition?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Gidget

Agreed, I don't feel like exercising my free agency will be the worst thing I face come judgment day. Anyway, does anyone know what would happen (course of action taken) if someone raises their hand in opposition to a sustaining?

references 'free' agency. You can't even get that one right. So I'm going to trust your thoughts on gay marriage? :twisted:

[exUte]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

I didn't know that gays were being given equal stature by the government in the plan of salvation. This is where you miss the point. Nobody is saying that the church has to sanction and perform gay temple sealings, but that seems to be the argument that you are making - i.e. That is the next step in this decline towards sodom and gomorah that prop 8 represents.

Again,no good reason given how this impacts the safety and sanctity of heterosexual marriage.

I'm not following along with what the church is asking, and frankly I expect to not be considered disloyal for exercising that discretion.

By the way, the history of the church quote above is superb.

is both heterosexual marriage and gay marriage 'ordained' of God and he thinks both are proper?

[OrangeUte]

everybody else probably has ex ute on ignore, and i'm getting close to that myself.

exie, you're pretty good at raising questions - that's easy to do. but, why don't you actually contribute something to the conversation instead of only taking a self-righteous and questioning position.

for starters, how is it harmful to society to have homosexuals marry? remember, this is an issue of allowing a group of people to have certain legal rights - it is not about whether homosexuality is considered a sin by the LDS church and/or other religions.