Americans views of Mormons Gallup poll

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Mormons are conservative therefore Benson did it. Sound reasoning counslor. It's really sad how little Mormon liberals who purvey this nonsense know themselves or their own people and their philosophical roots. I guess this type of pretzel logic is necessary when you belong to a community of poeple whom you find mostly so awful. Nobody except Mormon liberals and grapevine types really cares or even remembers what Benson said over the pulpit anymore. Mormon liberals think they're so much smarter than everyone else but don't give the rank and file nearly enough credit.

An interesting question:

Did Benson create more LDS conservatives by virtue of his vocal position on many issues, or did he act as a magnet for sentiments already coalescing within the culture?

By the time he became president, I doubt he had any effect, as towards the end, he was a figure head for GBH. Even late as President of the Twelve, he had significantly mollified his political discussions. I wish he had never been so political, because he was drawn to the whackiest of positions, adding legitimacy to them for many LDS. How was the Civil Rights movement linked to communism?

I imagine the LDS culture would not have been so behind the times though if several of its prominent leaders had not been so radical in their viewpoints. Leaders do not spring up in a vacuum, but rather act as voices already whispering within the community. The federal oppression of the Church created an atmosphere where ETB's radical Bircher positions could live.

In my view, ETB was both an echo of what already existed within the LDS community, yet a legitimizing for others who may have been on the fence or undecided.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Mormons are conservative therefore Benson did it. Sound reasoning counslor. It's really sad how little Mormon liberals who purvey this nonsense know themselves or their own people and their philosophical roots. I guess this type of pretzel logic is necessary when you belong to a community of poeple whom you find mostly so awful. Nobody except Mormon liberals and grapevine types really cares or even remembers what Benson said over the pulpit anymore. Mormon liberals think they're so much smarter than everyone else but don't give the rank and file nearly enough credit.

Come on, SU. I know you can read better than that. I didn't say anything remotely close to "Mormons are conservative, therefore Benson did it." I said "Benson had an EFFECT." He most certainly DID have an effect, and a substantial one at that.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Really? I bet he doesn't on the campaign trail or in front of the press. Not if he wants any chance of being elected he doesn't.

Bush has said similar things frequently, and he did even more during the primary races to attract attention to his "conservativism."

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Americans don't want a president saying "Jesus is my personal savior" over and over again as he sends troops to the Middle East.

They voted for Carter, Reagan and GWB.

[SeattleUte]

The only one who has come close to doing that is Bush and today an overwhelming majority of Americans have a low regard for him. Of the four I'd say Reagan and Romney are a lot less religious than Bush and Carter.Romney's religiosity seems Clintonian to me. I doubt very much he is a true believer.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Bush has said similar things frequently, and he did even more during the primary races to attract attention to his "conservativism."

Precisely my point. Nobody respects Bush anymore. You won't see anyone trying to ge ino his skin this election as Bush Sr. did Reagan for example.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Mormons are conservative therefore Benson did it. Sound reasoning counslor. It's really sad how little Mormon liberals who purvey this nonsense know themselves or their own people and their philosophical roots. I guess this type of pretzel logic is necessary when you belong to a community of poeple whom you find mostly so awful. Nobody except Mormon liberals and grapevine types really cares or even remembers what Benson said over the pulpit anymore. Mormon liberals think they're so much smarter than everyone else but don't give the rank and file nearly enough credit.

There was a thread on CG a week or two ago where it was observed that evangelicals dislike mormons precisely because their beliefs are so similar; evidence that it is human nature to be most distrustful of those who are most like us. I would argue that your loathing of Mormon liberals is more evidence of this theory. You seem to be disgusted by the fact that a group of LDS would have relatively honest and intellectual viewpoints regarding the faith but for whatever reasons have not chosen to reject the faith outright as you have. Particularly telling is your statement "...when you belong to a community of poeple whom you find mostly so awful." You are clearly projecting your own biases with that statement. We love our people. In spite of our differences.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

....Romney's religiosity seems Clintonian to me. I doubt very much he is a true believer.

Just what makes you doubt that he is a true believer?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

There was a thread on CG a week or two ago where it was observed that evangelicals dislike mormons precisely because their beliefs are so similar; evidence that it is human nature to be most distrustful of those who are most like us. I would argue that your loathing of Mormon liberals is more evidence of this theory. You seem to be disgusted by the fact that a group of LDS would have relatively honest and intellectual viewpoints regarding the faith but for whatever reasons have not chosen to reject the faith outright as you have. Particularly telling is your statement "...when you belong to a community of poeple whom you find mostly so awful." You are clearly projecting your own biases with that statement. We love our people. In spite of our differences.

You may have a point except I don't "loath" them. (For example, I'm truly very fond and an admirer of you and if I ever wind up in Provo again I will try to take you out to dinner.) If you study the history of Islamic-Christian relations it's interesting to note the mutual hostility when they had so much in common. Islamic dogma was adapted from Christianity and Judaism, its philosphers revered the Greeks, its architecture was heavily influenced by Byzantium, a Greco Roman bastion. In many ways Islam was just Christianity on steriods. Yet Christians and Muslims loathed one another from the start; in particular Christians loathed the upstarts.

If you look at the root of the word "liberal" there is the notion of ceaseless questioning and testing the established order. Mormon liberals choose to compartmentalize their liberalism in a way I choose not to and seems often disingenuous. With respect to social issues our views are very close.

But there are many aspects of liberals whether or not Mormon that I dislike. I abhore the hostile attitude toward Western culture and the idea that our icons are recognized as such because they were white men. This problem is insidious in a place like Seattle where schools would sooner have a special cultural study focus on Africa or India as Great Britain or ancient Rome. What results is just bad education and ignorance. Unfortuantely, home schooling is the only sure fire way to get away form it and I'm not a fan of that. This is why when anyone says Gibbon or Melville was a bad writer my antena goes up. I am also a big fan of Adam Smith's invisible hand; economic as well as individual liberty.

I'm not saying other cultures aren't totally worthwhile of course including to study and experience. One of the glories of ours is its absoprtive quality. But we need to understand ourselves first.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Just what makes you doubt that he is a true believer?

I know a lot of guys like him.