Tithing Settlement

[Iluvatar]

SteelBlue,

With all due respect, you're wrong....

Joseph didn't always approach the family first (infact, he very rarely did), he married several of the women without the knowledge or consent of their husbands (In some cases while the husbands were serving missions for the church). moreover, he married them without Emma's consent or knowledge.

Really, my only problem with polygamy, and especially this particular form of polyandry, is the dishonesty associated with all of it! Joseph and his initiates lied to their spouses, decieved the spouses of those women they took, and lied to the church at large for better than thirty years. If I can't trust the prophet to tell the truth to his spouse, or to the body of the church about somethng as important as polygamy... it all kind of dissolves for me.

This whole thing has almost made me hope that there is no afterlife...if the celestial kingdom is some strange combination of poygamy/polyandry, blood atonement, the law of consecration, etc., I'm not at all certain I want to be there! Not if my wife is fair game for any brother with a higher preisthood calling than myself.

It all makes me very sad...I guess.

[fuegote]

Originally Posted by Iluvatar

This whole thing has almost made me hope that there is no afterlife...if the celestial kingdom is some strange combination of poygamy/polyandry, blood atonement, the law of consecration, etc., I'm not at all certain I want to be there!

It all makes me very sad...I guess.

I hope you aren't passing the same sentiment to those you are in charge of, IE the young men.

[Iluvatar]

Originally Posted by fuegote

I hope you aren't passing the same sentiment to those you are in charge of, IE the young men.

Why would I do that. If nothing else the church helps make responsible citizens and good husbands and wives out of very ordinary people. I won't take from them their peace...the world was a much better place before finding out about Joseph's polyandry, the book of Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, etc., etc. etc.

Fuegote, you do know that it's people like you that shout "god is good" just before blowing themselves up in crowded shopping malls to smite the infidels, don't you? You do know that it's people like you that tortured and killed thousands of people at the request of the proph...err, pope during the spanish inquisition? And you must know that it was people exactly like you that cut the throats of women and young children at mountain meadows, don't you?

But, hey, if the prophet says so...

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Iluvatar

SteelBlue,

With all due respect, you're wrong....

Joseph didn't always approach the family first (infact, he very rarely did), he married several of the women without the knowledge or consent of their husbands (In some cases while the husbands were serving missions for the church). moreover, he married them without Emma's consent or knowledge.

Really, my only problem with polygamy, and especially this particular form of polyandry, is the dishonesty associated with all of it! Joseph and his initiates lied to their spouses, decieved the spouses of those women they took, and lied to the church at large for better than thirty years. If I can't trust the prophet to tell the truth to his spouse, or to the body of the church about somethng as important as polygamy... it all kind of dissolves for me.

This whole thing has almost made me hope that there is no afterlife...if the celestial kingdom is some strange combination of poygamy/polyandry, blood atonement, the law of consecration, etc., I'm not at all certain I want to be there! Not if my wife is fair game for any brother with a higher preisthood calling than myself.

It all makes me very sad...I guess.

I actually went through a phase of feeling that way for about two years. I eventually came to realize though, that I loved going to church and loved the people here and that when I was there it felt right to me. That was a feeling I couldn't deny. I like having the church as part of my life and have decided that though there is a great deal I can't get my mind around that in the end it is not essential that I am able to. I can take those things on faith.

Not sure if that makes any sense to you, but the church is a good thing and I don't personally believe that anyone who has looked at all the tough issues understands them all. We all take some things on faith. I guess my point is, for me it would just be a real shame to pass on so many good experiences and relationships because of the parts I am somewhat hung up on.

[fuegote]

Originally Posted by Iluvatar

the world was a much better place before finding out about Joseph's polyandry, the book of Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, etc., etc. etc.

then focus on Faith, Repentance, Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Build up these principles instead of looking at what you feel are errors of the church.

I don't know much about the Kinderhook plates, but I do know that Joseph Smith is a prophet and that's something that will never change.

[Iluvatar]

Fugote, asking me to focus on baptism, repentence, and gift of the holy ghost when there are so many things that I simply can't get past is like asking me (as a geologist) to look at the beauty and tranquiluty of the Salt Lake Valley and not look at the 100+ foot fault scarp adorning the east bench. It's simply not a very wise thing to do.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Iluvatar

Fugote, asking me to focus on baptism, repentence, and gift of the holy ghost when there are so many things that I simply can't get past is like asking me (as a geologist) to look at the beauty and tranquiluty of the Salt Lake Valley and not look at the 100+ foot fault scarp adorning the east bench. It's simply not a very wise thing to do.

I'm somewhat curious to know your object in sharing all of this.

[fuegote]

by the way, fuegote isn't capitalized for a reason just kidding.

This discussion is pretty much over then if you can’t get passed those concerns. There’s nothing I will be able to say that will help you get passed your roadblocks on our way to that final destination.

[Iluvatar]

Good question!

I have the rare day off and was bored. I was originally just interested to know if I was justified in being a little bent about my last tithing settlement.

Beyond that, I might have felt like venting today. I guess I was also a little curious to know if any of you have dealt with these issues in ways other than denial, or by saying "I'll just have to take that on faith". I might have been hoping for a uniquely profound or enlightening take.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Iluvatar

I guess I was also a little curious to know if any of you have dealt with these issues in ways other than denial, or by saying "I'll just have to take that on faith".

Those are the only two options I am aware of or have seen utilized. :wink:

Let not your heart be troubled.