It amazes me at how misunderstood

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Explain.

...that attitude of we have to be better than everyone else to prove the Mormon church is true was loud and clear.

Do you really think that is an accurate characterization?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Why is it hyperbole, because he disagrees with you. Use this for your link as to why you are considered to take extreme positions.

EXTREME??? You've got to be kidding me!!! I have never heard any leader explicitly or implicitly counsel what Jay is claiming, nor have I gotten a general sense from the membership the attitude that Jay has tried to characterize.

Jay's characterization is extreme and grossly inaccurate, IMO.

[BYU71]

I have seen that amongst the members. That isn't so hard to believe. I think it is probably natural.

I think much of our culture and heritage comes from our past. Our ancestors were treated harshly. They had to band together. I think that us against them carried through generations. It is probably dissipating as the church has grown.

I think anyone growing up in Utah in the 50's and 60's would admit there was an element of don't associate with the gentiles, they will defile you.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I wouldn't blame this on BYU or LDS in Utah. Growing up outside of Utah in a land where BYU was mostly hated

Sounds like a great place! Do they need new residents?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

EXTREME??? You've got to be kidding me!!! I have never heard any leader explicitly or implicitly counsel what Jay is claiming, nor have I gotten a general sense from the membership the attitude that Jay has tried to characterize.

Jay's characterization is extreme and grossly inaccurate, IMO.

I've encountered it my whole life in the church inside and outside of Utah. We take a lot of pride in knowing our behavior is better than non-LDS: divorce statistics, teenage drinking, teenage sex, whatever. We're expected to be better and we believe we are. It reinforces our belief that the church is true. Being told that LDS temple marriage divorce rates are no better than avg US divorce rates (not saying they are, this is a hypothetical) would be just as damaging to a lot of LDS testimonies as an anti-Mormon proving a case against the Book of Abraham.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Sounds like a great place! Do they need new residents?

Laramie, Wyoming. I'm sure you can find houses for sale.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Laramie, Wyoming. I'm sure you can find houses for sale.

This explains so much.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I've encountered it my whole life in the church inside and outside of Utah. We take a lot of pride in knowing our behavior is better than non-LDS: divorce statistics, teenage drinking, teenage sex, whatever. We're expected to be better and we believe we are. It reinforces our belief that the church is true. Being told that LDS temple marriage divorce rates are no better than avg US divorce rates (not saying they are, this is a hypothetical) would be just as damaging to a lot of LDS testimonies as an anti-Mormon proving a case against the Book of Abraham.

While I have no problem with some self-reassurance that we're doing the right thing in abstaining from these behaviors, anyone who uses that fact to browbeat someone else is not in harmony with the teachings of the gospel, or of the church leaders.

I remember being stunned years ago at Ricks College when some of my college buddies from Utah explained how some of their parents wouldn't let their children date non-members. In fact, one fine upstanding non-member kid was turned off to the church because of one parents' reaction to him asking their daughter to prom, or some other high school function.

That kind of behavior wouldn't have been possible where I grew up, and I think Hinckley, for one, has spoken out against it.

[Sleeping in EQ]

A couple of observations:

Much of what I hear about other churches and faiths at my church is a lot of hooey. It's one thing when it's in a class and their are opportunities for discussion, and quite another when some strident fool starts making declarations in a Sacrament Service talk. Regardless of the context, it's not very visitor friendly.

Sometimes Church members unintentionally come off as "holier than thou," and especially when it comes to the WoW. Being a little more congenial than I think I need to be usually hits it about right.

I've had people assume that because I'm Mormon, I'm politically conservative.

Polygamy, temple secrecy, modern revelation, and exclusive claims are enough to make us a little odd for most people, and with protestants and evangelicals in particular because they want to control our public image. Mormons are the Charlie Brown to the protestant's and evangelical's Lucy, and acceptance is the football they're always yanking out of the way.

Anti-BYU bias is alive and well with some in the Church. It's not always because somebody's kid wasn't accepted, but that does play a part. It's more generally that BYU grads can be a little fraternity without realizing it--watching games together, telling BYU stories in EQ or HPG, emphasizing how tough it is to get into BYU these days etc. BYU grads easily slip into what I call "ingroup/outgroup discourse."

Some Church members I've met do try to demonstrate that they are better than "outsiders" and it comes off as snobbishness. I've noticed this more with RS sisters than with men. Behind the lacey doiles and colorful handouts, RS sisters can be quite competitive (and even clannish).

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

Some Church members I've met do try to demonstrate that they are better than "outsiders" and it comes off as snobbishness. I've noticed this more with RS sisters than with men. Behind the lacey doiles and colorful handouts, RS sisters can be quite competitive (and even clannish).

Is it thus possible that these folks are just plain snobs (regardless of their religion), and that Mormonism simply provides an elitist outlet for them to demonstrate it?