It amazes me at how misunderstood

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Tex

Is it thus possible that these folks are just plain snobs (regardless of their religion), and that Mormonism simply provides an elitist outlet for them to demonstrate it?

I'm sure that has to do with it, but Mormonism is inevitably tarnished by their actions.

[BYU71]

I found this to be kind of a humorous story. One of the guys in our golf group told us about growing up in Utah as a Catholic. I didn't even know he was Catholic.

Anyway when he was a kid his parents let him go to Primary with his friends in the neighborhood. During one class the teacher told the kids how lucky they were they were going to be able to be with their parents in heaven. She then when on to say this kid wouldn't because he was Catholic. He said he balled all the way home.

He grew up in Utah and still lives in Utah. He has no animosity to the church because he realizes now most members aren't that insensitive.

I asked him if it was that or just he decided he didn't care that he wouldn't be with his parents.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

While I have no problem with some self-reassurance that we're doing the right thing in abstaining from these behaviors, anyone who uses that fact to browbeat someone else is not in harmony with the teachings of the gospel, or of the church leaders.

I remember being stunned years ago at Ricks College when some of my college buddies from Utah explained how some of their parents wouldn't let their children date non-members. In fact, one fine upstanding non-member kid was turned off to the church because of one parents' reaction to him asking their daughter to prom, or some other high school function.

That kind of behavior wouldn't have been possible where I grew up, and I think Hinckley, for one, has spoken out against it.

This is not really something for Indy and Tex to circle the wagons and defend and fight the liberals over. It's a pretty obvious observation of LDS culture.

Every LDS in this church can tell you we're expected to live to a higher standard. In a lot of areas we're successful. It's a natural consequence of that for many LDS to get a big head over it. This goes from the newest member all the way to the top. Maybe it's not a bad thing that we're expected to be better than others without the "true gospel". Christ asks a lot of his disciples. Maybe it's very natural to observe LDS being successful at this and take the next step to say we're better than others. But it does happen. And it does tend to piss other people off.

P.S. I would strongly counsel my kids not to date non-LDS.

[Indy Coug]

I would also strongly counsel my kids not to date non-LDS kids, not due to a "we're better than they are" or "they aren't going to get to heaven" attitude, but from 30+ years of observing part-member families and the struggles they have when the non-LDS spouse is not supportive and often is downright antagonistic about their spouse and/or children being active in the church.

That said, living in a place like Pennsylvania, it's a bit impractical to not let my kids go out with non-LDS kids once they are of age.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I saw a poll that indicated the #1 reason self-proclaimed evangelicals wouldn't vote for a Mormon was because the LDS Church claims to be the one true Christian church.

irony alert. It's ok to proclaim to have the one true belief (as all Evangelicals will do), just not the one true church. It's really the same thing. And Mormons don't teach that Evangelicals are going to hell. But the reverse doesn't hold true for them. It's funny because in a typical anti-Mormon tract they'll bash us for being too exclusive (only true church) and too accepting (Mormons don't believe anyone is going to hell) at the same time.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This is not really something for Indy and Tex to circle the wagons and defend and fight the liberals over. It's a pretty obvious observation of LDS culture.

Every LDS in this church can tell you we're expected to live to a higher standard. In a lot of areas we're successful. It's a natural consequence of that for many LDS to get a big head over it. This goes from the newest member all the way to the top. Maybe it's not a bad thing that we're expected to be better than others without the "true gospel". Christ asks a lot of his disciples. Maybe it's very natural to observe LDS being successful at this and take the next step to say we're better than others. But it does happen. And it does tend to piss other people off.

To the extent someone does that, I argue they are out of harmony with the gospel.

I don't see this as a "circle the wagons and defend and fight liberals over" issue, by the way.

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I would also strongly counsel my kids not to date non-LDS kids, not due to a "we're better than they are" or "they aren't going to get to heaven" attitude, but from 30+ years of observing part-member families and the struggles they have when the non-LDS spouse is not supportive and often is downright antagonistic about their spouse and/or children being active in the church.

That said, living in a place like Pennsylvania, it's a bit impractical to not let my kids go out with non-LDS kids once they are of age.

I think it's a mistake. Obviously, there's a line here, but I have a sister who dated a non-LDS guy all through high school. He ended up joining the church, serving a mission, marrying in the temple (not to my sis though ), and turning into a fine church member.

I dated a girl in college who was brought into the church by an ex-boyfriend, and a more faithful member you'll never meet.

Of course, there's the flipside ... another college friend (LDS) dated a Catholic guy for months and months, and eventually the relationship had to end because neither could come to terms with the others' faith. It was very hard on her.

We all want our kids to marry in the gospel for all the obvious reasons. But that doesn't mean we can't associate--even date--those who are not. It's part of sharing who we are, and I think we risk the first gray shades of xenophobia if we tell our kids, "No you can't go out with him. He's not Mormon."

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by BlueK

irony alert. It's ok to proclaim to have the one true belief (as all Evangelicals will do), just not the one true church. It's really the same thing.

Tell me about it. But we get nervous if you try to say we're the ones going to hell. We just won't stand for it.

wait, you guys don't do hell, do you?

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I would also strongly counsel my kids not to date non-LDS kids, not due to a "we're better than they are" or "they aren't going to get to heaven" attitude, but from 30+ years of observing part-member families and the struggles they have when the non-LDS spouse is not supportive and often is downright antagonistic about their spouse and/or children being active in the church.

That said, living in a place like Pennsylvania, it's a bit impractical to not let my kids go out with non-LDS kids once they are of age.

I would emphasize the importance of temple marriage, but also counsel them not to date exclusively while in high school. I would probably try to direct them towards just having fun social experiences while in HS. As long as that's all it is I wouldn't have a problem with them going to a dance or something with a non member as long as they're a good person who will respect their beliefs and standards.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Tell me about it. But we get nervous if you try to say we're the ones going to hell. We just won't stand for it.

wait, you guys don't do hell, do you?

That depends on your definition of hell. For me, it's once a month when I see someone from the stake high council sitting next to the Bishop. Has there ever been a high concil member that wasn't boring? I even dreaded being dragged to sacrament meetings when my Dad was speaking.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by BlueK

irony alert. It's ok to proclaim to have the one true belief (as all Evangelicals will do), just not the one true church. It's really the same thing.

Tell me this. How do you feel about evangelicals? I have no problem with them thinking they are right. I do have a problem with them saying I am not Christian, that I belong to a cult, I won't get into heaven and on and on and on.

Most people don't have a problem with your beliefs. It is when you try to shove them down someone elses throat and carry yourself as better than others.