The BYU identity

[MikeWaters]

In spending some time browsing the A&M board, I have come to appreciate the fact that for A&M grads, there really is an unwritten code of conduct and ethics that they expect all "true" Aggies to uphold.

It's a much more pronounced identity than BYU grads have, in terms of this unwritten code. And I'm trying to understand why.

Two thoughts: BYU grads have two official arbiters of codes. 1) the church, and 2) the BYU honor code. Neither of which they have any input in.

Whereas for A&M fans, this unwritten code is something that must be constantly addressed and hashed out from one generation to the next. I.e. it is a constant source of discussion and teaching, whereas the BYU situation is one of "obey the commandments."

Looking at it another way, A&M fans and grads feel like they own A&M, whereas BYU grads and fans have no such feeling. It is very clear who owns BYU, and it is very clear who makes decisions, and it is very clear that there is no desire to understand its graduates.

Lack of vision at BYU among the Board of Trustees and Presidents has really hurt it.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

In spending some time browsing the A&M board, I have come to appreciate the fact that for A&M grads, there really is an unwritten code of conduct and ethics that they expect all "true" Aggies to uphold.

It's a much more pronounced identity than BYU grads have, in terms of this unwritten code. And I'm trying to understand why.

Two thoughts: BYU grads have two official arbiters of codes. 1) the church, and 2) the BYU honor code. Neither of which they have any input in.

Whereas for A&M fans, this unwritten code is something that must be constantly addressed and hashed out from one generation to the next. I.e. it is a constant source of discussion and teaching, whereas the BYU situation is one of "obey the commandments."

Looking at it another way, A&M fans and grads feel like they own A&M, whereas BYU grads and fans have no such feeling. It is very clear who owns BYU, and it is very clear who makes decisions, and it is very clear that there is no desire to understand its graduates.

Lack of vision at BYU among the Board of Trustees and Presidents has really hurt it.

It seems to me that it starts with the fact that BOT and Presidents, at least recent ones, don't love and adore BYU as a unique institution of higher learning. There is clearly a desire for BYU to be seen as an extension of the Church and any love or adoration that goes directly to BYU is not going to the Kingdom of God, it is another zero sum dilemma. aTm is seen as an institution by its alum and BYU is forced into being a small part of a bigger institution. Enter to learn...go forth to serve! Normal universities strive to develop a greater loyalty to the institution's identity because it leads to $$$$.

However, I think the folks do like money and are stuck between a rock and a hard place as sports is a great vehicle to money, but how to go get it has them confused a bit. This might really explain the downscheduling trend, IMO. It might be the first instance where Bronco is being ordered to do something for the greater good of the institution.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

It seems to me that it starts with the fact that BOT and Presidents, at least recent ones, don't love and adore BYU as a unique institution of higher learning. There is clearly a desire for BYU to be seen as an extension of the Church and any love or adoration that goes directly to BYU is not going to the Kingdom of God, it is another zero sum dilemma. aTm is seen as an institution by its alum and BYU is forced into being a small part of a bigger institution. Enter to learn...go forth to serve! Normal universities strive to develop a greater loyalty to the institution's identity because it leads to $$$$.

However, I think the folks do like money and are stuck between a rock and a hard place as sports is a great vehicle to money, but how to go get it has them confused a bit. This might really explain the downscheduling trend, IMO. It might be the first instance where Bronco is being ordered to do something for the greater good of the institution.

This bit about BYU being molded into something that is little more than one small auxiliary of the church, and not its own unique entity, explains why for many grads, there is little desire to support it financially. Tithing is plenty support. Giving to BYU anything more than tithing would be a waste.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

This bit about BYU being molded into something that is little more than one small auxiliary of the church, and not its own unique entity, explains why for many grads, there is little desire to support it financially. Tithing is plenty support. Giving to BYU anything more than tithing would be a waste.

I agree. In the 70's and the 80's, when BYU was under the leadership of legitimate University Presidents and not ecclesiastical leaders, BYU began movements to generate more donations. I still recall that brown haired chick wailing out "Excellence in the 80's and You at BeeeWHYYYYYYOUUUUUUU!" whenever I went with my old man to watch the Cougars at the Stake Center. I think that the BOTs didn't like BYU developing its own indentity, and the football team having such a huge identity, and made efforts to reel it all in. It is interesting to me because the Church will leverage the hell out of the success of BYU sports for branding purposes (Bronco's cheesy book, having Lavell speak at a Priesthood session of General Conference) but then certain leaders seem to take offense if they conclude that the child is bigger than its master in the eyes of many so they seek to reel it in, but then they conclude they lose the marketting opportunities to brand the success. It must cause their heads to hurt.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I agree. In the 70's and the 80's, when BYU was under the leadership of legitimate University Presidents and not ecclesiastical leaders, BYU began movements to generate more donations. I still recall that brown haired chick wailing out "Excellence in the 80's and You at BeeeWHYYYYYYOUUUUUUU!" whenever I went with my old man to watch the Cougars at the Stake Center. I think that the BOTs didn't like BYU developing its own indentity, and the football team having such a huge identity, and made efforts to reel it all in. It is interesting to me because the Church will leverage the hell out of the success of BYU sports for branding purposes (Bronco's cheesy book, having Lavell speak at a Priesthood session of General Conference) but then certain leaders seem to take offense if they conclude that the child is bigger than its master in the eyes of many so they seek to reel it in, but then they conclude they lose the marketting opportunities to brand the success. It must cause their heads to hurt.

I think you hit the nail on the head. None of you probably remember, but as a voice in the wilderness backin in the early stages of CB I spoke of how higher ups thought of BYU athletics. Even back then I got the "you aren't a true fan" stuff and had two people actually ask me if I held a Temple Recommend.

This goes on at other institutions too. The academic world at Michigan isn't thrilled at the status the academic department has. However, leaders know the power of the alumni and their wallets.

BYU has another more powerful master. The church. You are a member of the church first and an alumni second. To question your alma matter is to question the church and therefor God. You think I am wrong. Question something BYU does in a robust way on Cougarboard.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I think you hit the nail on the head. None of you probably remember, but as a voice in the wilderness backin in the early stages of CB I spoke of how higher ups thought of BYU athletics. Even back then I got the "you aren't a true fan" stuff and had two people actually ask me if I held a Temple Recommend.

This goes on at other institutions too. The academic world at Michigan isn't thrilled at the status the academic department has. However, leaders know the power of the alumni and their wallets.

BYU has another more powerful master. The church. You are a member of the church first and an alumni second. To question your alma matter is to question the church and therefor God. You think I am wrong. Question something BYU does in a robust way on Cougarboard.

You don't count because you objectify women and you might have changed your own oil before your car hit that point of no longer needing an oil change.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

You don't count because you objectify women and you might have changed your own oil before your car hit that point of no longer needing an oil change.

Does dreaming about changing the oil count as changing your own oil.

[K-dog]

I think BYU alumni struggle to be attached to the University because the University doesn't need, want, or like their input. Why would they need input when they have a BOT that will just ask God?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Does dreaming about changing the oil count as changing your own oil.

Some dreams are pretty lifelike when it comes to changing oil.

[DrumNFeather]

I would think that the feeling of ownership you speak of applies in some ways to all members...which is why, among other things, you get the occasional "ALUF" speaking out against some horrendous action done by the university or its representatives (like wearing a hat sideways).

At most schools, there is a concept that "my money and my child go to (fill in the blank)." But at BYU, it's more of a "my tithing goes to BYU, so regardless of whether or not I am alumn, or my kid goes there, I should have a say.

I suppose it is just the nature of the beast when you have an institution that is or is trying to be an arm of the larger structure (the church), and as such, you have a supporting "member" fan base, rather than an alumni fan base (that supports with its collective pocket book).