I heard a Korean guy on NPR last night say the most apalling thing - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 09-08-2006, 10:04 PM

Last night on NPR a Korean guy was ranting about how intolerable the 30,000 U.S. servicemen occupying Korea were. He made some points that seemed valid and for a while he had a sympathetic ear from me. There is such a thing as the ugly American. Then he said, "It's as bad as when the Japanese were here." About this I'm speechless. I don't know what to say about such collosal ignorance other than to say hearing things like this makes me think we should be like Norway and retreat into isolationism, learn to power our cars by burning manure, coal or whatever, and let the miserable world outside Western Europe, Canada, Australia and Japan fuck themselves. I don't really feel that way, but hearing things like that conjures up those kindds of dark thoughts in me.

Archaea · 09-08-2006, 10:47 PM

Well, I could feel that way about everywhere but Canada and Tahiti,

, or France Outre-Mer.

It goes to show that most societies have short memories of history. The Japanese have done a much better job of eradicating their blame for World War II than any other nation. Of course, many of their history books don't even record the atrocities committed against the Chinese during WWII.

Koreans integrated within Japanese society do not fare well. There are numerous jobs which the Koreans in Japan may not hold by virtue of their Korean lineage.

MikeWaters · 09-08-2006, 11:36 PM

I'm all for pulling out of S. Korea. They don't want us there. Why should we die for people that hate us? It makes no sense to me.

I'm sure Japan wants a buffer, and prefers we stay. But who cares. It's easier to defend Japan than S. Korea.

myboynoah · 09-09-2006, 06:08 AM

Comparing the presence of 30,000 U.S. troops in South Korea to the Japanese occupation is, well I can't even think of a word that can sufficiently describe the absurdity of the statement. The guy is a full on idiot.

The biggest difference is that we are there at the request of the South Korean government, much like we are in Japan, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey, etc. If the South Korean Government wanted us out, we would be gone. Fairly simple. That idiot remains in the vocal minority.

The larger issue of U.S. presence overseas is an interesting debate. It is that very presence that allows countries like Norway to retreat and become isolationist and minimize their defense outlays. Would Europe be one market had we not stayed after the war? Would Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. be the economic powers that they are had we not stayed? I think the world would be a much different and more dangerous place without our presence. That would all eventually impact on us no matter how isolationist we would want to be. I think we learned that after WWI.

SeattleUte · 09-09-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Comparing the presence of 30,000 U.S. troops in South Korea to the Japanese occupation is, well I can't even think of a word that can sufficiently describe the absurdity of the statement. The guy is a full on idiot.

The biggest difference is that we are there at the request of the South Korean government, much like we are in Japan, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey, etc. If the South Korean Government wanted us out, we would be gone. Fairly simple. That idiot remains in the vocal minority.

The larger issue of U.S. presence overseas is an interesting debate. It is that very presence that allows countries like Norway to retreat and become isolationist and minimize their defense outlays. Would Europe be one market had we not stayed after the war? Would Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. be the economic powers that they are had we not stayed? I think the world would be a much different and more dangerous place without our presence. That would all eventually impact on us no matter how isolationist we would want to be. I think we learned that after WWI.

Hey, I agree.

SeattleUte · 09-09-2006, 11:43 PM

Japan also imposed a dictatorship, no civil liberties, no sovereignty, genocied, etc.

MikeWaters · 09-10-2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Japan also imposed a dictatorship, no civil liberties, no sovereignty, genocied, etc.

but otherwise were benevolent dictators.

Jeff Lebowski · 09-10-2006, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

but otherwise were benevolent dictators.

Yeah, it was a "co-prosperity sphere" after all, eh?

Jeff Lebowski · 09-10-2006, 05:35 AM

Anyone read "The of Nanking" by Iris Chang? The Japanese occupation was unbelievably brutal. As a former missionary to Japan it is jarring to read of such atrocities and contrast it with the modern Japan that I know.

FarrahWaters · 09-10-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Anyone read "The of Nanking" by Iris Chang? The Japanese occupation was unbelievably brutal. As a former missionary to Japan it is jarring to read of such atrocities and contrast it with the modern Japan that I know.

One year, my MIL brought back a large packet of magazines from Japan for my dad to read. (My dad is not Japanese, but reads novels and historical books in the language). When I asked what they were about, he just laughed and said they were an ultra-right wing magazine that claimed the atrocities committed in Nanking never happened. I don't know how many people share this view (my MIL probably just saw the headlines on the cover and figured my dad would like it since he reads historical books), but I think even the Japanese govt. only recently acknowledged any such wrongdoing. eta: I could be wrong about that, and don't have time to look it up now.

09-08-2006, 10:04 PM	#1
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	I heard a Korean guy on NPR last night say the most apalling thing Last night on NPR a Korean guy was ranting about how intolerable the 30,000 U.S. servicemen occupying Korea were. He made some points that seemed valid and for a while he had a sympathetic ear from me. There is such a thing as the ugly American. Then he said, "It's as bad as when the Japanese were here." About this I'm speechless. I don't know what to say about such collosal ignorance other than to say hearing things like this makes me think we should be like Norway and retreat into isolationism, learn to power our cars by burning manure, coal or whatever, and let the miserable world outside Western Europe, Canada, Australia and Japan fuck themselves. I don't really feel that way, but hearing things like that conjures up those kindds of dark thoughts in me. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

09-08-2006, 10:47 PM	#2
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Well, I could feel that way about everywhere but Canada and Tahiti, , or France Outre-Mer. It goes to show that most societies have short memories of history. The Japanese have done a much better job of eradicating their blame for World War II than any other nation. Of course, many of their history books don't even record the atrocities committed against the Chinese during WWII. Koreans integrated within Japanese society do not fare well. There are numerous jobs which the Koreans in Japan may not hold by virtue of their Korean lineage. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα Last edited by Archaea; 09-08-2006 at 11:14 PM.

09-09-2006, 06:08 AM	#4
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Comparing the presence of 30,000 U.S. troops in South Korea to the Japanese occupation is, well I can't even think of a word that can sufficiently describe the absurdity of the statement. The guy is a full on idiot. The biggest difference is that we are there at the request of the South Korean government, much like we are in Japan, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey, etc. If the South Korean Government wanted us out, we would be gone. Fairly simple. That idiot remains in the vocal minority. The larger issue of U.S. presence overseas is an interesting debate. It is that very presence that allows countries like Norway to retreat and become isolationist and minimize their defense outlays. Would Europe be one market had we not stayed after the war? Would Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. be the economic powers that they are had we not stayed? I think the world would be a much different and more dangerous place without our presence. That would all eventually impact on us no matter how isolationist we would want to be. I think we learned that after WWI. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

09-09-2006, 11:43 PM	#6
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Japan also imposed a dictatorship, no civil liberties, no sovereignty, genocied, etc. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

09-10-2006, 05:35 AM	#9
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Anyone read "The of Nanking" by Iris Chang? The Japanese occupation was unbelievably brutal. As a former missionary to Japan it is jarring to read of such atrocities and contrast it with the modern Japan that I know. __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

09-08-2006, 11:36 PM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I'm all for pulling out of S. Korea. They don't want us there. Why should we die for people that hate us? It makes no sense to me. I'm sure Japan wants a buffer, and prefers we stay. But who cares. It's easier to defend Japan than S. Korea.