Minimum Wage

[All-American]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

we don't. we're trying to determine the factors that correlate with success so we can determine how the government can expand opportunity to more people. you keep making oversimplistic, dichotomous statements.

Why do you hate America?

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

we don't. we're trying to determine the factors that correlate with success so we can determine how the government can expand opportunity to more people. you keep making oversimplistic, dichotomous statements.

Just curious, which governmental program would you consider a success? If there isnt one which governmental program would you like instituted or would be a success if instituted

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Just curious, which governmental program would you consider a success? If there isnt one which governmental program would you like instituted or would be a success if instituted

NSF, NIH, welfare reform, land-grant universities, progressive taxation, creation of the discipline of computers science (and hence internet).

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

Let's hold everybody else down and make them dumb and ignorant.

It's cold and it's counterproductive. Everyone can benefit from an education, even the working class.

Education is supposed to be the great equalizer, the vehicle to extend the American dream accessible to everybody.

Who is being held down? And please enlighten me as to the American citizens out there who have no access to education because they're poor? ANYBODY can go to college in this country, with community colleges, PELL grants, subsidized student loans, etc.

If somebody doesn't get an education, it's because they don't want to.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

If somebody doesn't get an education, it's because they don't want to.

I call bullshit.

There's a whole class of kids that are dealt out of the system before they can even apply for Pell Grants.

Their elementary schools don't prepare them for junior high, they're unprepared for high school, if they finish high school (in the OKC public schools, 50% drop out), they're unprepared for college.

At which point there did they decide they didn't want a college education?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I call bullshit.

There's a whole class of kids that are dealt out of the system before they can even apply for Pell Grants.

Their elementary schools don't prepare them for junior high, they're unprepared for high school, if they finish high school (in the OKC public schools, 50% drop out), they're unprepared for college.

At which point there did they decide they didn't want a college education?

Apparently, elementary school.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I call bullshit.

There's a whole class of kids that are dealt out of the system before they can even apply for Pell Grants.

Their elementary schools don't prepare them for junior high, they're unprepared for high school, if they finish high school (in the OKC public schools, 50% drop out), they're unprepared for college.

At which point there did they decide they didn't want a college education?

You can go to community college with a GED. And they have remedial classes to boot. If you can't progress beyond that, maybe you don't belong in college?

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

You can go to community college with a GED. And they have remedial classes to boot. If you can't progress beyond that, maybe you don't belong in college?

you missed her point, they get screwed a lot earlier.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Even FM Coug noted that he was successful in part due to pell grants (a government program). How many poor people could go to college without them? How many could afford private schooling without publicly funded elementary and secondary schools? How many would have to drop out and get a job to help a family eat if not for welfare and other such programs?

And you will never see me arguing against programs that are designed with self-reliance as the end goal. If someone is going to school (be it college, getting a GED, VoTech, whatever) and needs financial aid, subsidized health care, WIC, etc. I think that's great. But there needs to be accountability and an end in sight.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

And you will never see me arguing against programs that are designed with self-reliance as the end goal. If someone is going to school (be it college, getting a GED, VoTech, whatever) and needs financial aid, subsidized health care, WIC, etc. I think that's great. But there needs to be accountability and an end in sight.

liberals (myself included) would agree with you