Women's suffrage and Mormonism

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by woot

Do you hate yourself? I can't imagine the motivation behind characterizing one's sex so poorly. I've known women who could drink me under the table, and I've known women that are way better with kids than me (Almost all of them in this case, as kids aren't really my thing). These sorts of generalizations are sexist and not supported by the facts.

You don't think there could possibly be any other reason why people say "Hi Mom" on TV?

I don't know whether you are joking or not. Therefor I don't wish to make you look foolish when all you were trying to do is add some humor.

[DJRoss]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Blah blah blah. Don't come here citing hearsay studies without citation to support your crack-pot, fringe sexist theories. Ignoramus, you're in the stone age. More than half the population of elite colleges and graduate and professional schools are women. Women are holding their own numrerically and intellectually in the board rooms, faculties, OR's, law firms and labs of the most elite institutions in the West. Their kids have been growing up and attending places like Stanford now for 2-3 generations. Odds are our next president will be a woman.

I'd like to see if your hero Romney would spout this blather. He wouldn't because half the directors of corporations he's formed are women, and he'd be done as a candidate in one second if he did.

I have as little repsect for sexism as I do racism. I know hundreds of women who are great mothers and would disembowel you professionally in the blink of an eye.

Why don't you send me an excel file of those "hundreds" of women that are great mothers (that you actually know are great mothers and not relying on media hype if they are public figures), and who could disembowel me professionally in the blink of an eye. LOL what a joke.

Did you not pay attention over the past thirty years of the enormous push to get girls into college? How many programs or quota systems are there today that are actually geared toward men not considered minorities? How many of these women actually finish their schooling? How many actually continue on to careers opting to delay or eliminate family life? How many would have even applied to college if there had not been such a strong promotional effort to get them to do so? Now I am all for boys and girls attending college if that is their desire. I am all for both genders doing their utmost to educate themselves, but I am not about to support the kind of feministic platforms that are dominating higher education today due to the amount of sixties bra burners that now enjoy administrative positions on campuses today. Sad to realize that many of these die hards got where they were through politics vs. capabilities.

Are you like that Cropped Hair, loopy earring Haight Ashbury throwback that wept in front of Barbara Walters or was it Diane Sawyer when the a tight group of women considered as a golden generation decided to step down as CEO's, Partners in their law firms, etc to be stay at home mommies. They were all wanting children, having them and realizing that staying at home and nurturing them was preferred over any other choice. No discussion of Daddy staying home during this all important period in a childs life. This feminist hippy idiot was angered by their behavior. She ranted about how these women had a duty to set an example for girls to follow after and that they had set women back over thirty years. No joy or happiness for their decision to stay at home; only anger and bitterness.

Here is a nice article written by a woman, using quotes by women regarding this issue.

Here is amazing piece that really digs deep into the challenges we face due to feminism. Overcoming Motherhood

This is a must read. It is long, but it does an excellent job of revealing just road we have taken when we have worked so hard to break up traditional roles as they have been established over thousands of years.

BTW, my wife is educated, works out of the home (has her office at home), but travels as a CRA regularly throughout the United States to monitor various phase studies for pharmaceutical research. She loves her job and enjoys the flexibility it provides given that she can work from home. She decided to work only after our children began attending school. Why? Oh I don't know, maybe it had to do with the priorities of nurturing that she felt were so important. If you were to bark your feminist rhetoric at her, she would grin slightly, shake her head in wonderment at your ignorance, and than walk away. (She is conflict averse which makes sense since she is Swedish).

Look before you leap. The feminist agenda is counter to a society of values that strengthen a nation. Feminist agendas have nothing to do with equal pay for equal work. It has nothing to do with valuing each gender for what each brings to society.

[woot]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I don't know whether you are joking or not. Therefor I don't wish to make you look foolish when all you were trying to do is add some humor.

No, I was being serious. Please make me look foolish.

[woot]

Originally Posted by DJRoss

Why don't you send me an excel file of those "hundreds" of women that are great mothers (that you actually know are great mothers and not relying on media hype if they are public figures), and who could disembowel me professionally in the blink of an eye. LOL what a joke.

Did you not pay attention over the past thirty years of the enormous push to get girls into college? How many programs or quota systems are there today that are actually geared toward men not considered minorities? How many of these women actually finish their schooling? How many actually continue on to careers opting to delay or eliminate family life? How many would have even applied to college if there had not been such a strong promotional effort to get them to do so? Now I am all for boys and girls attending college if that is their desire. I am all for both genders doing their utmost to educate themselves, but I am not about to support the kind of feministic platforms that are dominating higher education today due to the amount of sixties bra burners that now enjoy administrative positions on campuses today. Sad to realize that many of these die hards got where they were through politics vs. capabilities.

Are you like that Cropped Hair, loopy earring Haight Ashbury throwback that wept in front of Barbara Walters or was it Diane Sawyer when the a tight group of women considered as a golden generation decided to step down as CEO's, Partners in their law firms, etc to be stay at home mommies. They were all wanting children, having them and realizing that staying at home and nurturing them was preferred over any other choice. No discussion of Daddy staying home during this all important period in a childs life. This feminist hippy idiot was angered by their behavior. She ranted about how these women had a duty to set an example for girls to follow after and that they had set women back over thirty years. No joy or happiness for their decision to stay at home; only anger and bitterness.

Here is a nice article written by a woman, using quotes by women regarding this issue.

Here is amazing piece that really digs deep into the challenges we face due to feminism. Overcoming Motherhood

This is a must read. It is long, but it does an excellent job of revealing just road we have taken when we have worked so hard to break up traditional roles as they have been established over thousands of years.

BTW, my wife is educated, works out of the home (has her office at home), but travels as a CRA regularly throughout the United States to monitor various phase studies for pharmaceutical research. She loves her job and enjoys the flexibility it provides given that she can work from home. She decided to work only after our children began attending school. Why? Oh I don't know, maybe it had to do with the priorities of nurturing that she felt were so important. If you were to bark your feminist rhetoric at her, she would grin slightly, shake her head in wonderment at your ignorance, and than walk away. (She is conflict averse which makes sense since she is Swedish).

Look before you leap. The feminist agenda is counter to a society of values that strengthen a nation. Feminist agendas have nothing to do with equal pay for equal work. It has nothing to do with valuing each gender for what each brings to society.

The point is that what you consider to be "traditional roles" are nothing of the sort. They are recent cultural constructions. Your position follows decently from your premise; it's your premise that needs questioning.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by woot

No, I was being serious. Please make me look foolish.

In each of my posts I took great pain to talk about generalities and exceptions to generalities. You talk about women who can drink you under the table. How does your situation extend to all men and women?

I've read several of your posts. You lean to the feminine side. Therefor how can you use yourself as a comparison for most men and most women. Most men are not feminine. You may wish that was the case, but it isn't.

Note I didn't say anything about comparing women in general to the subset of feminine men, but to men in general.

Sorry for saying I would make you look foolish. I am trying to display my sensitive side so maybe we can discuss things in a more calm fashion in the future.

[woot]

Originally Posted by BYU71

In each of my posts I took great pain to talk about generalities and exceptions to generalities. You talk about women who can drink you under the table. How does your situation extend to all men and women?

I've read several of your posts. You lean to the feminine side. Therefor how can you use yourself as a comparison for most men and most women. Most men are not feminine. You may wish that was the case, but it isn't.

Note I didn't say anything about comparing women in general to the subset of feminine men, but to men in general.

Sorry for saying I would make you look foolish. I am trying to display my sensitive side so maybe we can discuss things in a more calm fashion in the future.

I wasn't using that as a generalization, but rather as a counter to yours. That should have been obvious. Why do you think I lean to the feminine side? Because I don't drink alcohol very often? I definitely have no desire to come across as macho, and think that many problems are caused by those who do have such a desire, but that certainly doesn't make me feminine. "Secure" would be a better word. For the record, I am a large, muscley guy with lots of hair. Perhaps my need to seem masculine is tempered by that fact.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by woot

I wasn't using that as a generalization, but rather as a counter to yours. That should have been obvious. Why do you think I lean to the feminine side? Because I don't drink alcohol very often? I definitely have no desire to come across as macho, and think that many problems are caused by those who do have such a desire, but that certainly doesn't make me feminine. "Secure" would be a better word. For the record, I am a large, muscley guy with lots of hair. Perhaps my need to seem masculine is tempered by that fact.

I don't know if you drink alcohol often or not. Ok lets use another example.

If I said in general men are stronger than women and would on average win in a knock down drag out fight.

Now your counter is going to be. I know women who would kill me in a knock down drag out fight. That is why I think you lean to the feminine side. Despite your size and hair.

[woot]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I don't know if you drink alcohol often or not. Ok lets use another example.

If I said in general men are stronger than women and would on average win in a knock down drag out fight.

Now your counter is going to be. I know women who would kill me in a knock down drag out fight. That is why I think you lean to the feminine side. Despite your size and hair.

No, that's not true at all. I am the first to acknowledge that women's sports are boring because women suck at sports compared to men, and that there are very few women on earth who could take me in a fight. You're confusing vastly different things. A woman's ability or desire to get drunk are not based on physical stature, other than that women are generally smaller and therefore get drunk more easily. Your statement is completely baseless, as I have said nothing that would allow you to logically come that conclusion.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by DJRoss

Why don't you send me an excel file of those "hundreds" of women that are great mothers (that you actually know are great mothers and not relying on media hype if they are public figures), and who could disembowel me professionally in the blink of an eye. LOL what a joke.

Did you not pay attention over the past thirty years of the enormous push to get girls into college? How many programs or quota systems are there today that are actually geared toward men not considered minorities? How many of these women actually finish their schooling? How many actually continue on to careers opting to delay or eliminate family life? How many would have even applied to college if there had not been such a strong promotional effort to get them to do so? Now I am all for boys and girls attending college if that is their desire. I am all for both genders doing their utmost to educate themselves, but I am not about to support the kind of feministic platforms that are dominating higher education today due to the amount of sixties bra burners that now enjoy administrative positions on campuses today. Sad to realize that many of these die hards got where they were through politics vs. capabilities.

Are you like that Cropped Hair, loopy earring Haight Ashbury throwback that wept in front of Barbara Walters or was it Diane Sawyer when the a tight group of women considered as a golden generation decided to step down as CEO's, Partners in their law firms, etc to be stay at home mommies. They were all wanting children, having them and realizing that staying at home and nurturing them was preferred over any other choice. No discussion of Daddy staying home during this all important period in a childs life. This feminist hippy idiot was angered by their behavior. She ranted about how these women had a duty to set an example for girls to follow after and that they had set women back over thirty years. No joy or happiness for their decision to stay at home; only anger and bitterness.

Here is a nice article written by a woman, using quotes by women regarding this issue.

Here is amazing piece that really digs deep into the challenges we face due to feminism. Overcoming Motherhood

This is a must read. It is long, but it does an excellent job of revealing just road we have taken when we have worked so hard to break up traditional roles as they have been established over thousands of years.

BTW, my wife is educated, works out of the home (has her office at home), but travels as a CRA regularly throughout the United States to monitor various phase studies for pharmaceutical research. She loves her job and enjoys the flexibility it provides given that she can work from home. She decided to work only after our children began attending school. Why? Oh I don't know, maybe it had to do with the priorities of nurturing that she felt were so important. If you were to bark your feminist rhetoric at her, she would grin slightly, shake her head in wonderment at your ignorance, and than walk away. (She is conflict averse which makes sense since she is Swedish).

Look before you leap. The feminist agenda is counter to a society of values that strengthen a nation. Feminist agendas have nothing to do with equal pay for equal work. It has nothing to do with valuing each gender for what each brings to society.

Do you live in a cave? More like it I think you're a clientless "consultant" schmuck working in his own basement (I only get personal with sexists and racists who vent their nonsense without factual foundation). Good thing your wife has a day job. Seriously, you are out of touch with reality; I'm sorry for you that you are so isolated whereever it is you subsist that you doubt what I'm saying about the millions upon millions of women in influential and important positions in this country.

That you think it's "feminist ideology" to say that women should be free to choose to work without being guilt-tripped by chavenists like you says it all. It seems this is only a debatable issue among Mormons. Two-thirds of the people my firm hires are women. Two thirds of the partners we made last year were women.

Your derogatory comments about alleged affirmative action for women are not only sexist, they're false (except at BYU it seems). Here is what's really happening all over the country, not just in the elite colleges but in all the elite fields:

"Few of us sitting around the table were as talented and as directed at age 17 as this young woman. Unfortunately, her test scores and grade point average placed her in the middle of our pool. We had to have a debate before we decided to swallow the middling scores and write "admit" next to her name.

"Had she been a male applicant, there would have been little, if any, hesitation to admit. The reality is that because young men are rarer, they're more valued applicants. Today, two-thirds of colleges and universities report that they get more female than male applicants, and more than 56 percent of undergraduates nationwide are women. Demographers predict that by 2009, only 42 percent of all baccalaureate degrees awarded in the United States will be given to men."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/op...=1&oref=slogin

The Hoover Institution article has nothing to do with what we're discussing. I bet you didn't even read it.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by woot

No, that's not true at all. I am the first to acknowledge that women's sports are boring because women suck at sports compared to men, and that there are very few women on earth who could take me in a fight. You're confusing vastly different things. A woman's ability or desire to get drunk are not based on physical stature, other than that women are generally smaller and therefore get drunk more easily. Your statement is completely baseless, as I have said nothing that would allow you to logically come that conclusion.

Are you serious, to quote you "a woman's ability or desire to get drunk are not based on physical staure," now this is classic, "other than that women are generally smaller and therefore get drunk more easily."

Reread what you said over and over again until you come to the conclusion that you just said women get drunk more easily because of their physical stature. (Of course we are talking in general terms here. I realize some women may be bigger in stature than you, but I assume most aren't.)