It realy is about religion ...

[woot]

Originally Posted by tooblue

I am not portraying an attitude of victim hood, rather expressing my dismay at the reality of the whole situation ... 1 in 5 evangelicals voted for Romney ... 30% or more of voters have stated they will not vote for a Mormon and not because of 'those issues' as you call them.

It’s a sad day in America when such bigotry is left unchecked.

Please quit it with the persecution complex. Crazy beliefs about invisible zombies in the sky are just as valid in judging a candidate as are crazy beliefs about anything else. Unless you would happily vote for a scientologist, a wiccan, or a pastafarian you have no right to claim bigotry.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

This is silly. Grow up. You need to learn the meaning of bigotry. People choose their beliefs. They make a decision to believe as they do, and those with courage of their convictions should be clear eyed about the consequences of their beliefs. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "I won't vote for anyone to lead this country who claims to believe that stuff." There's nothing wrong with it. I bet you have said you wouldn't vote for an atheist. That's fine too.

The condescension in your post only further proves how ignorant you truly are … oh the irony. You shun and have turned away from Mormonism in large part because you are embarrassed by it … and who needs to grow up?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

The reality is Mormons are not freaky ... Mormons do not need to change ... Americans in general are ignorant and NEED to change!

This is priceless. I'm going to assume he's kidding.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

This is silly. Grow up. You need to learn the meaning of bigotry. People choose their beliefs. They make a decision to believe as they do, and those with courage of their convictions should be clear eyed about the consequences of their beliefs. It's perfectly acceptable to say, "I won't vote for anyone to lead this country who claims to believe that stuff." There's nothing wrong with it. I bet you have said you wouldn't vote for an atheist. That's fine too.

bigotry - noun - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

A rather broad, but accurate definition of those who won't vote on Romney based on his religion alone. I don't have a problem if someone won't vote for him because he's a Mormon, but I don't think they should get some kind of free pass for it either; however, it's not big enough of a deal to get worked up over it.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

The condescension in your post only further proves how ignorant you truly are … oh the irony. You shun and have turned away from Mormonism in large part because you are embarrassed by it … and who needs to grow up?

I rejected the beliefs, as your post impliclty recogizes (if I thought they were credible or sublime I wouldn't be embarrassed by them). I do think they are embarrasing. But that's a subsidiary point. You would be free to vote against me for president because of this with no offense taken by me.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by woot

Please quit it with the persecution complex. Crazy beliefs about invisible zombies in the sky are just as valid in judging a candidate as are crazy beliefs about anything else. Unless you would happily vote for a scientologist, a wiccan, or a pastafarian you have no right to claim bigotry.

It's not my fault you are coward who lacks conviction and can only attack a person instead of engage his/her ideas. I'm not going to shy away and condone the bigotry. I am going to point at it and continue to stand up for what I believe despite your desire to belittle and censure.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I rejected the beliefs, as your post impliclty recogizes (if I thought they were credible or sublime I wouldn't be embarrassed by them). I do think they are embarrasing. But that's a subsidiary point. You would be free to vote against me for president because of this with no offense taken by me.

The reality is we cannot rationalize this discussion into an issue of personal freedoms ... that is cowardice. It needs to be labled what it is -bigotry. Where in fact the man is not even given an opportunity to be voted against because of his religion. There is no freedom of choice, the decision is already made.

[woot]

Originally Posted by tooblue

It's not my fault you are coward who lacks conviction and can only attack a person instead of engage his/her ideas. I'm not going to shy away and condone the bigotry. I am going to point it at and continue to stand up for what I believe despite your desire to belittle and censure.

I can't even count the wrong statements in there.

Look, here's the point. Bigotry connotes prejudice. Prejudice denotes an irrational unwillingness to engage with or examine an idea before passing judgment. I have engaged with Mormonism and have found it wanting. I'm not bigoted against Mormonism any more than I'm bigoted against a flat earth or flogiston.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by woot

I can't even count the wrong statements in there.

Look, here's the point. Bigotry connotes prejudice. Prejudice denotes an irrational unwillingness to engage with or examine an idea before passing judgment. I have engaged with Mormonism and have found it wanting. I'm not bigoted against Mormonism any more than I'm bigoted against a flat earth or flogiston.

Now I'm wrong? How exactly ... lol ... you can't carry on a conversation without definatively stating you are right and someone else is wrong. Think about that woot ... think about it.

And Don't change definitions now that you have been challenged -Il padrino posted the definition -go look at it.

You shunned Mormonism due to fear and cowardice. Own up to it -don't try to make your decision appear as something more.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

bigotry - noun - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

You mean like this?:

Originally Posted by tooblue

The reality is Mormons are not freaky ... Mormons do not need to change ... Americans in general are ignorant and NEED to change!